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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So every single time in your life you entered a female space and there was no male you actively felt discomfort? Why?

I don’t mean you feel upset for trans people, I mean actual discomfort or a sense of being unsafe. Not just upset you didn’t get your way.

More likely doesn’t mean a high amount. It just means more women than men. And trans people know that. They count on it. My point still stands.

GC argument is that tw are men. Until you disprove that nothing you come at me with will matter. They are men. They belong in male spaces. End of.

🎉OMG YOURE SO WOKE YOU HAD THE GUTS TO “CORRECT” YOUR OWN DADDY! PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK (because no one else gives a fuck, probably including your dad)🎉

Your dad was right, Rachel is an obvious man.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

So every single time in your life you entered a female space and there was no male you actively felt discomfort? Why?

I would feel discomfort if I saw someone asking someone else to leave a public place when the other person isn't harassing or bothering anyone. In fact, I would ask that person to leave, because nothing is stopping me and if they can harass a person why can't I?

🎉OMG YOURE SO WOKE YOU HAD THE GUTS TO “CORRECT” YOUR OWN DADDY! PAT YOURSELF ON THE BACK (because no one else gives a fuck, probably including your dad)

Yes and I will correct anyone, male or female. GCs claim the trans rights movement is a men's rights movement. If that's the case, why are women the ones supporting it and men aren't?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

If males aren’t allowed in female spaces then there should be no males for a woman to have to ask to leave a female space so…

You wouldn’t have any basis for asking a female to leave a female space just because she spoke up for her rights.

Also- if a woman is bothered by a male in a space he doesn’t belong he is in fact bothering her just by being there.

That’s the thing- if women were protected and respected, that man would be in the wrong no matter what just for entering the space to begin with, and any woman would have every right to speak up.

Once again, that’s not the point. I very clearly asked “if you entered a female space and there were no males would you feel unsafe or any discomfort?” Why then, did you ignore that question and make up a scenario that has nothing to do with my question? Is it because you have no answer to my actual question that doesn’t prove my point? Deflection deflection deflection. All the time with you.

You didn’t correct anyone. You just forced your view point into yet another person. A view point you can’t back up. Can you prove to anyone, including your father, that are in fact women?

And according to you, I mean you LOVE pointing this out so idk how you forgot so quickly, SOME women are supporting it (as well as some men, just less men than women). Some doesn’t mean all. Or most (another thing I’ve reminded you of many times). It just means some. So I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make with that last question?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If males aren’t allowed in female spaces then there should be no males for a woman to have to ask to leave a female space so…

I disagree with the idea of male and female spaces so…

You wouldn’t have any basis for asking a female to leave a female space just because she spoke up for her rights.

Where are sex segregated spaces a right? Is it written in the constitution? In the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights? In the Geneva conventions? Nope.

In fact, in my state which is New York it's illegal to deny "the use of rest rooms, locker rooms, or other facilities consistent with a person's gender identity." There are even signs posted in front of bathrooms that people have the right to use the restroom that matches their gender identity and anyone who harasses a person on this basis will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I support this and I don't vote for politicians that don't support transgender rights.

https://dhr.ny.gov/genda

Also- if a woman is bothered by a male in a space he doesn’t belong he is in fact bothering her just by being there.

That's not the definition of bothering. Bothering is to annoy someone with petty provocation. If someone is not talking to you and not getting in your way, they are not bothering you. If you are bothered by someone's mere presence, that's your problem and not theirs.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Where are sex segregated spaces a right? Is it written in the constitution? In the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights? In the Geneva conventions? Nope.

Which country's constitution are you referring to? If it's the US constitution, then I suggest you do some reading about it and about the vast body of US federal and state civil rights law that has issued from the US constitution, as well as the history of the constitution and the philosophy of inalienable rights behind it. Also, I suggest you learn about others areas of US law like health ordinances and building codes. Collectively, the body of laws and regulations in the USA prohibit unfair treatment of women and girls based on our sex, and also allow for sex-based accommodations and services.

It's because of the protections women have won under the US constitution, federal and state civil rights laws and state and local public health and building codes that it's no longer legal for employers to fire women for becoming pregnant as used to be the case, and that public places in the US are required to provide urinals in communal toilets meant for the male sex, and stalls with sit-down toilets equipped with special bins for disposal of used female hygiene and menstrual products in toilets meant for the female sex.

As for the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights - why mention only those, but none of the UN's conventions, declarations, programs and policy recommendations regarding the rights of girls and women?

https://www.unwomen.org/en/about-us/guiding-documents

https://documents-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLUTION/GEN/NR0/378/07/IMG/NR037807.pdf?OpenElement

http://hrlibrary.umn.edu/instree/women/engl-wmn.html

About the Geneva conventions, obviously you've never read them. Why am I not surprised?

Practice Relating to Rule 119. Accommodation for Women Deprived of Their Liberty

I. Treaties

Geneva Convention III, 1949:

Article 25, fourth paragraph, and Article 29, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention III provide that in any camps in which men and women prisoners are accommodated together, separate dormitories and conveniences shall be provided for women.

Geneva Convention IV, also 1949:

Article 76, fourth paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides that women accused of an offence “shall be confined in separate quarters and shall be under the direct supervision of women”.

Article 85, fourth paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: "Whenever it is necessary, as an exceptional and temporary measure, to accommodate women internees who are not members of a family unit in the same place of internment as men, the provision of separate sleeping quarters and sanitary conveniences for the use of such women internees shall be obligatory."

Article 97, fourth paragraph, and Article 108, second paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention III provide that women prisoners of war undergoing disciplinary punishment or convicted of an offence shall be confined in separate quarters from men Geneva Convention IV

Article 124, third paragraph, of the 1949 Geneva Convention IV provides: “Women internees undergoing disciplinary punishment shall be confined in separate quarters from male internees and shall be under the immediate supervision of women.”

Additional Protocol I of the Geneva Conventions, 1977

Article 75(5) of the 1977 Additional Protocol I provides: Women whose liberty has been restricted for reasons related to the armed conflict shall be held in quarters separated from men’s quarters. They shall be under the immediate supervision of women. Nevertheless, in cases where families are detained or interned, they shall, whenever possible, be held in the same place and accommodated as family units.

Additional Protocol II, 1977

Article 5(2)(a) of the 1977 Additional Protocol II provides, with regard to persons deprived of their liberty for reasons related to the armed conflict, that whether they are interned or detained, “except when men and women of a family are accommodated together, women shall be held in quarters separated from those of men and shall be under the immediate supervision of women”.

II. Other Instruments (in addition to treaties0

Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners

Rule 8(a) of the 1955 Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners provides: Men and women shall so far as possible be kept in separate institutions. In institutions which receive both men and women the whole of the premises allocated to women shall be entirely separate.

European Prison Rules Rule 11(2) of the 1987 European Prison Rules provides: “Males and females shall in principle be detained separately, although they may participate together in organised activities as part of an established treatment programme.”

UN Secretary-General’s Bulletin

Section 8(e) of the 1999 UN Secretary-General’s Bulletin provides: “Women whose liberty has been restricted shall be held in quarters separated from men’s quarters, and shall be under the immediate supervision of women.”

III. Military Manuals

[All the world's military manuals listed provide for the separation of male and female detainees. For example]:

Australia: Australia’s LOAC Manual (2006) states:

Women arrested, detained or interned for reasons connected with the armed conflict must be kept in separate quarters from men and under the immediate supervision of women. In cases where families are detained or interned, they should, whenever possible, be held in the same place and accommodated “as family units”.

The manual also states: Female prisoners [of war] must be treated with due regard to their sex and must in no case be treated less favourably than male prisoners. Their sex must also be taken into account in the allocation of labour and in the provision of sleeping and sanitary facilities.

United States of America

The US Manual on Detainee Operations (2008) states: “To the extent possible, accommodation must be made for female … detainees. Unless militarily unfeasible, female detainees must be searched by female service members and must be segregated from male detainees.”

V. National Legislation

VI. Other National Practice

India: Indian regulations provide that detained women may not be housed with men, and that, where possible, women should be looked after by female police officers

Serbia: In 2006, in its initial report to the Committee against Torture, Serbia stated:

  1. Male and female detainees are separated and intermingling is not allowed. …

  2. Under the Law on the Execution of Criminal Sanctions, women are sent to penal-correctional institutions for women. These institutions are separated from those for men and are organized in accordance with the needs of the women serving their sentences in them. The guards, medical staff and all other employees of those institutions in direct contact with inmates are women.

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul_rule119

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

GenderBender, just continuing my earlier post:

You might want to begin acquainting yourself with other international and regional accords and declarations, as well as national and and state laws, regarding the treatment of female prisoners outside of wartime contexts. This document sums gives an overview of international accords and practices.

http://www.peacewomen.org/assets/file/Resources/NGO/HR_Prisoners_QUNO_2008.pdf

These passages are particularly relevant:

UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners

Separation of categories

  1. The different categories of prisoners shall be kept in separate institutions or parts of institutions taking account of their sex, age, criminal record, the legal reason for their detention and the necessities of their treatment

(a) Men and women shall so far as possible be detained in separate institutions; in an institution which receives both men and women the whole of the premises allocated to women shall be entirely separate...

Rule 8 of the UN Standard Minimum Rules for the Treatment of Prisoners is clear in requiring that men and women be detained separately. However, as a result of the lack of facilities for women’s detention, women and girls in many countries are imprisoned in places where men and women share facilities, such as cooking and recreational space. Whilst formally male and female prisoners may be held separately, in practice they are not. This places women at an unacceptable risk of assault by male prisoners.

  1. (1) In an institution for both men and women, the part of the institution set aside for women shall be under the authority of a responsible woman officer who shall have the custody of the keys of all that part of the institution.

(2) No male member of the staff shall enter the part of the institution set aside for women unless accompanied by a woman officer.

(3) Women prisoners shall be attended and supervised only by women officers. This does not, however, preclude male members of the staff, particularly doctors and teachers, from carrying out their professional duties in institutions or parts set aside for women.

Women in prisons all around the world are at risk of rape, sexual assault and torture. In some countries, gender-based violence is endemic in places of detention. Sexual violence against women in prisons has received attention from the Human Rights Committee, the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women51 and the Committee Against Torture. The Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women and the Special Representative of the Secretary-General on Human Rights Defenders have documented scores of incidents of ill-treatment of women in prisons.52

Women are placed at particular risk of sexual and physical abuse when male staff are employed in inappropriate capacities in women’s prisons. In less overtly violent prison environments, improper touching during searches, being watched when dressing, showering or using the toilet – what the Special Rapporteur on Violence Against Women describes as ‘sanctioned sexual harassment’ - is often prevalent. The presence of male corrections officers in housing units and elsewhere creates a situation in which sexual misconduct is more pervasive than if women are guarded by female officers.

European Prison Rules, Rule 18.8

In deciding to accommodate prisoners in particular prisons or particular sections of a prison due account shall be taken of the need to detain: … b. male prisoners separately from female prisoners;

Principles and Best Practices on the Protection of Persons Deprived of Liberty in the Americas, Principle XIX

The different categories of persons deprived of freedom shall be kept in separate places of deprivation of liberty or in different sections within the same institution, taking account of their sex, age, the reason for their deprivation of liberty, the need to protect the life and integrity of persons deprived of liberty or personnel, special needs of attention, or other circumstances relating to internal security.

In particular, arrangements shall be made to separate men and women; ...

Application [of international standards and rules pertaining to female prisoners]

Women must be accommodated in a place physically separate from accommodation for male prisoners. Where male and female sections in a prison adjoin each other, or share facilities, at no time should male prisoners have physical access to women prisoners. To prevent verbal harassment, male and female prisoners should not be able to see or hear each other. The prison must have in place policies to prevent, investigate and provide effective redress for any physical, sexual or psychological violence between prisoners.

With careful safeguards, it might be possible to accommodate together male and female prisoners who are family members or otherwise in a close relationship.

The European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT) Standards note that: As a matter of principle, women deprived of their liberty should be held in accommodation which is physically separate from that occupied by any men being held at the same establishment. That said, some States have begun to make arrangements for couples (both of whom are deprived of their liberty) to be accommodated together, and/or for some degree of mixed gender association in prisons. The CPT welcomes such progressive arrangements, provided that the prisoners involved agree to participate, and are carefully selected and adequately supervised.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your personal opinion isn’t really relevant to what we are discussing and you tend to cling to it when you have no argument. The world doesn’t revolve around you and it’s sad that you can’t engage with what people are saying without resorting to your opinions when you have no rebuttal lol

You understand the concept of sex based spaces as well as the issue we are discussing. So that whole second paragraph is meaningless. You know what we are discussing. It’s just fruitless to skirt around it.

It is, at the least, annoying as fuck when males enter female spaces. Their very presence is annoying (again, to say the least). It is my problem that males can disrupt my spaces. That’s what we are fighting against. So again, not sure what point you’re trying to make. I don’t even think you’re sure. You just repeat what they taught you to say lol