QT: why should "transwomen" be allowed into women's spaces at all?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

These spaces shouldn't be segregated to begin with.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Why not? The many reasons for segregating these kinds of spaces by sex has been presented to you numerous times.

Please spell out all the reasons why you believe there should be no sex segregation.

Also, please explain how female people - the whole range of us, including little girls, teenage girls, pregnant women and girls, breastfeeding women, frail elderly women, women and girls with disabilities, observant Jews and Muslims, nuns, female victims of CSA, rape, sexual assault and harassment - benefit from making it impossible for us to have any place outside our homes where we can get away from the male gaze, male sexual advances, male prurience, male sexual harassment, male bullying, male intrusiveness, male threats, male intimidation, male sexual assault and male violence?

Tell me, how exactly does the human race benefit by enacting policies that will make it so difficult and uncomfortable for women to breastfeed and express milk outside the home that large numbers of mothers will inevitably wean their offspring much earlier than is optimal for their health, or they will never breastfeed at all?

How does it help human beings individually, and our species collectively, to make sure that most of the world's population will be deprived of the enormous lifelong physical and mental health benefits of breastfeeding? How does making breastfeeding more difficult, and less likely, benefit the poor of the world in particular?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

First, most women don't want sex-segregated spaces, and I can say that confidently. I know I cited this study a hundred times, but only 40% of women support requiring trans people to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth. That means 60% of women are OK with otherwise. 60% is more than half of women. 51% of cis men support requiring trans people to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth. Also, according to this poll, 59% of men support banning trans women in women's sports compared to 46% of women. 29% of men oppose banning trans women in women's sports compared to 34% of women.

Every poll I find about trans issues, they all have one thing in common. Regardless of percentage results or fluctuation, cis women are more likely to support trans rights than cis men. Why? I've seen talks in gender critical spaces about "class analysis" and what's good for women as a class. Considering that, studies show women as a class don't want sex segregated spaces. Well, most women don't want sex segregated spaces. 60% of women is a lot.

I am a cis woman. I am also an Ashkenazi Jew, learning disabled and I have been a teenage girl and a victim of sexual harassment numerous times. I am still against sex segregated spaces. While it's only men harassing me on the street, 99% of men aren't harassing me. Any man who commits sexual harassment or assault should face consequences in the justice system. Actually this applies to everyone, not just men. A few weeks ago a strange man on the street made me uncomfortable. Even if a few men are sexually harassing me, I can't expect all men to be banned from the street that time in the evening, or banned from that particular area. Nor do I want this. My privacy is also not violated by having a man in the women's restroom. Restrooms have stalls, so unless I don't lock the door I have all the privacy I need in the world, regardless of who is washing their bands next to me.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. 40% is still a lot of women you're asking to have their boundaries ignored in the benefict of the feeling of what... about 1% percent of men (using sex-based definitions, here)?

  2. It's not clear to me how many of those 60% of women knows that: most males who identify as "women" (aka "transwomen") do keep their penises, they do retain male patterns of criminality, most of them are sexually attracted to women and most of them discovered their "authentic selves" through porn. All of which could change their opinion on the matter of restrooms.

  3. You keep trying to center on restrooms and, maybe, changing rooms, but those are far from the only places where sex-seggregation is important for the safety and dignity of women. Speaking of which, could you explain to me if "transwomen" inclussion in women's spaces is so important for most Americans, why do the Washington state is so bent of making sure its citizens don't learn how many males claiming to be "women" there are in the female estate?

  4. Even if all American women were okay with the elimination of sex-seggregated spaces, why the rest of the world should follow suit? For all their empty talk about "intersectionalism", American liberals surely sound a lot like your typical American imperialists. Why does Joe Biden thinks he has the duty to lecture the world about the importance of "gender identity"? How is this is any different from the US playing world police and thinking itself as the bringer of democracy and human rights around the world (which, "curiously", involves a lot of invading foreign countries, war propaganda, overthrowing democratic goverments they don't like, assassinations, torturing suspected terrorists, arming extremists that suit their own interests, imposing economic sanctions, etcetera) as usual? Sorry, but I'm tired of Americans thinking they should shape the politics of any other country under the excuse of human rights.