Meta: What can we do to stimulate more activity here?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]LemurLemur 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I poked my head in to lurk, and this post inspired me to go dig up my old sign-in info.

I think this sub and the GC people behind it probably should figure out what they want the purpose of this sub to be - civil communication, or "bravely standing up to evil trans people and finally getting to tell them what you REALLY think". I made exactly one post here, asking if the "rudefem" behavior was intentional on GC's part or if it was just an unfortunate byproduct, and I think you, worried, were literally the only person who didn't refuse to even admit that rudeness happens at all. I got a lot of the same answers: 1.) GC aren't rude, you're just stupid 2.) They're rude because this is the only place they can be, so they're allowed to be (but also they aren't rude, you're just stupid.)

I should point out I'm not even trans. My sibling is. Out of curiosity as to what sort of shit they're likely to get for it, I looked at what GC people say, and... yeah, mostly it's "they're disgusting narcissistic degenerate criminals who live to rape and masturbate to violent porn". Hell, the top bullet to most "guide to peaking people" usually starts with "make sure to tell people the transes are doing it for sexual pleasure and they'll rape you as soon as they can get you alone".

So... I'm a little surprised this even needs to be said but... stuff like this isn't fun to interact with. Not for a trans person, and not for anyone that has trans people they care about. It's literally just prejudice, coming from people who claim to want to fight prejudice.

I hang out on other debate subs, and what makes them fun is getting to learn more about people different from you; I've gotten to like people I never thought I would, just by being open minded. I don't get the feeling that is possible here. I don't know if feelings are just too raw for most GC to be neutral about it, but diverse, mixed communities have to rely extra hard on giving each other the benefit of the doubt, and proactively trying to find ways around insults, name-calling, prejudice, stereotyping ect. This sub does not offer that. It's not required to, and I'm not saying it has to. But it doesn't want to. And that makes it hard for anyone non-GC to feel motivated to contribute.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So... I'm a little surprised this even needs to be said but... stuff like this isn't fun to interact with.

Does it need to be said though? I’m sure all GCers have heard at this point that the lack of participation from the QT side is actually GC’s (read: women’s) fault for not being nice enough. As much as everyone who has come swooping in with this hot take over the years seems to think GC just isn’t aware that QT thinks they’re ‘rude’, I can assure you that that is not the case. We know. But it’s never been a convincing argument to me, considering how transwomen speak to and about women on this sub and the former reddit sub (and in general).

It’s no wonder women get defensive every time this is brought up; there’s a ridiculous double standard at work here. QT has been complaining about this since the old sub, so there’s been plenty of discussion about it with QT always inevitably failing to provide examples of GC ‘rudeness’ worse than their own.

Do you have an example of GC rudeness on this sub that’s worse than being called dense? Because even on this sub where we have, at best, four non-GC participants, there have been incidents like ‘rape fantasies are innate in women’ or the masks debacle which I’m not sure I’m allowed to rehash.

I also remember when QT made their own subreddit, installed their own mods, and then still immediately complained about GC bias and GC cruelty and left the subreddit (I hope a particularly wounded QTer has recovered from being called ‘cupcake’ by this time). At some point you can’t blame GC anymore (you still will though).

And if you’re going to bring Ovarit (I’m assuming) and therefore spaces outside our debate space into it—even if I were to grant your obviously exaggerated characterisation of the discussion there—then the evidence against QT is even more damning. QT regularly uses misogynistic hate speech to terrorise women. Remember when that male professor suggested JK Rowling be ‘punished’ with a ‘vaginal injury’? This is one example out of literally thousands. How can you, without a trace of shame, chastise radfems for not being nice enough when there are QTers running wild on the internet calling for the 'corrective rape' of 'T*RFs'? Is it ‘fun’ for women to interact with QT in that context? What makes GC women ‘motivated to contribute’ under those circumstances? I’ve curiously never heard an explanation as to why women are able to dialogue with people who talk to and about them like that when it’s absolutely impossible for trans people and their allies to talk to ‘rude’ women. Perhaps it’s time to consider that there might be another factor at play here in QT’s lack of participation.

The bad behaviour of male people towards female people is so ubiquitous that it’s considered normal and inevitable and is therefore barely even noticed—to give the most charitable explanation for your insane double standard that I can give. And while GC women sometimes police each other, I have literally never in my eight years in these spaces seen a QTer call out another QTer for misogyny (or homophobia, for that matter). To my knowledge, no one has ever made a post or comment telling QT they need to ‘work extra hard’ to not insult or stereotype female people. But QT is largely male, and housekeeping is female work, right?

[–]LemurLemur 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As I've had to say to another person... I'm not trans or QT, tho. I've never done any of that. Is there room for discussion with people who don't threaten rapes and call people "cupcake" but just... aren't GC?