How much do we owe to strangers?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (144 children)

Your comments all through out this sub are the proof and yes, males using their male privilege to rob women and girls of spaces free from them are absolutely violating our rights. We can’t even play sports without men forcing their way into that anymore. Even if they weren’t violating our rights they’re erasing us. You’ll see one day. And when you do I hope this sub is still here so I can say I told you so.

The reason I know you’ll see one day is because you’ve never commented anything that has come across as your own independent thought. It’s so obvious that you’re repeating the party lines that it’s pretty clear that you’ve been indoctrinated. You’ll learn. Most women eventually do.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (143 children)

You said what I want is what "an incredibly small portion of the population" wants.

According to a PPRI study, only 40% of women support requiring trans people to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth. That means 60% of women are OK with otherwise. That is not an incredibly small portion of the population. 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals people to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth.

What do you mean by I'm "indoctrinated?" I believe pretty much everything I post, and I am against sex-segregated spaces. I believed everything I say for over 10 years.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (139 children)

Im confident most people, male or female, aren’t well informed on this subject. Most people buy the "we just want to pee" bullshit. So I’m not surprised that there’s a large percentage that’s willing to make some men the exception to the sex based rule- they don’t understand that giving an inch to TW gives away our whole sex. I also know people are afraid to be honest about this subject, but 40% is a lot of uncomfortable women. That’s too high a percentage to me for this to be okay.

As far as your beliefs- we’ll see lol. This ideology is more illogical that actual recognized religions. It will crumble. It’s not sustainable. Unless you’re trans yourself, you’ll eventually see how ridiculous this whole thing is. I have asked you several times for proof that TWAW, you can’t provide it, that’s how I know you’ll eventually see the light.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (138 children)

Im confident most people, male or female, aren’t well informed on this subject. Most people buy the "we just want to pee" bullshit. So

I'm confident most people are well informed on this subject. Most of us know what it means to to allow opposite sex people in the bathroom. We just don't agree that this is inherently dangerous for cis women. We feel if someone harasses someone else in the bathroom or locker room, it's their behavior that's the problem, not their mere presence.

This is GCs argument, that QTS are brainwashed, that QTs don't know what the trans movement entails, yada yada. Just because we disagree with you doesn't mean we are brainwashed.

I also know people are afraid to be honest about this subject, but 40% is a lot of uncomfortable women. That’s too high a percentage to me for this to be okay.

But 60% of women don't believe bathrooms should be sexed. We live in a democracy, meaning majority rules.

As far as your beliefs- we’ll see lol. This ideology is more illogical that actual recognized religions. It will crumble. It’s not sustainable. Unless you’re trans yourself, you’ll eventually see how ridiculous this whole thing is.

To you. Every day I read Ovarit and am disgusted by most of their posts and comments. How did they not "peak" me yet?

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Serios question, why do you keep hate-reading ovarit if our comments are so disgusting? Also, have you checked the it's a fetish or this never happens subs?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (136 children)

Im saying that most people may be fine with bathrooms because they don’t realize the further implications. We generally want others to be safe- that’s what they’re relying on. But as I said, your link actually indicates thst the amount of people who think trans people should use the spaces that corelate to the reality of their sex is what is actually increasing. Read your link more thoroughly.

I dont think actual trans people are brainwashed- I think they’re severely mentally ill. I think their simps, including you, are brainwashed. Why else would you believe so fervently in something so easily disproved?

As far as the 60%- as I said, they aren’t paying attention to the bigger picture and still, the link you provided doesn’t say what you think it says or prove what you think it proves- it actually proves the tide is slowly turning.

And I used to think like you, and when pressed, I couldn’t back up my claims either. If You dont eventually peak, its because you just refuse to out of religious belief. You’ve never actually even attempted to provide evidence to the TWAW tmam thing, and the "evidence" you link always proves you wrong lol. I’d bet you secretly know gc is right already. See you soon on the gc side lol. Don’t worry, living in reality is fun too.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (135 children)

Im saying that most people may be fine with bathrooms because they don’t realize the further implications.

How do you know people don’t realize the further implications? How do you know people don’t do their research? Is it because they hold opinions you don't agree with?

But as I said, your link actually indicates thst the amount of people who think trans people should use the spaces that corelate to the reality of their sex is what is actually increasing.

I dont think actual trans people are brainwashed- I think they’re severely mentally ill. I think their simps, including you, are brainwashed. Why else would you believe so fervently in something so easily disproved?

Cool. You think people who hold different opinions then you are brainwashed simps. But that argument does not prove your point. In fact, it makes your argument weaker.

It’s gender critical views that are banned from many major websites, including Reddit, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Ovarit even has an entire circle of people who are "cancelled" for gender critical views. Have you heard of TRAs being cancelled?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (79 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is. So I’m saying they DGAF about trans people either way, they just accept the lie of “just wanting to pee" because they are under-informed and want the well being of others. But when other issues come up, they clearly lean gender critical when they are confronted with the subject.

I don’t think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

Gender critical views are all over all of the sites you listed lmao. Yes select people get “canceled”, but the views of the majority are allover. I juuuuust got through watching a gender critical channel on YouTube and this very site links several Twitter threads of people acknowledging how insane tras are. There are even low key subs on Reddit where the comments are full of people laughing at how ridiculous tras sound.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

Interesting how you have so much to say in response to my comment but won’t address that you misinterpreted your own link. The very link that would tell you what I’m typing now.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

Further- People like Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, Blaire White who is trans himself, all have thriving social media pages on various platforms and huge followings. Further proof that the issue is not what gc says- it’s that the people associated with gender critical are WOMEN. when it comes from a man’s mouth, widespread agreement, and tras in a corner of the internet crying violence and spouting false statistics and half truths. (Yes I’m aware that those are all conservative men- but even people who aren’t conservatives are in agreement when it comes to trans issues, that’s my point. Even when they disagree with other stuff, they agree here. The fact that non conservatives are even willing to admit they agree with conservatives on anything is just how clear it is that most of the 99% are not here for tra bs)

Even the Wii spa lady was supported, despite the seething rage from tras.

Dave chapelle- not canceled

Queen J K Rowling herself- not canceled. Even amongst tras they’re so desperate to cling to her works that they try to act as if she’s no longer associated with Harry Potter.

Even Maya forestsarter got to come back from her "cancellation"

I think you’re so ensconced in your gender uwu circle jerk bubble that you just don’t see what is actually going on outside of it.

[–]beris😎 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

I mean, can we at least agree that people with more wealth and media/internet presence than small countries cannot be 'canceled'? Implying that jk rowling or dave chapelle could be in literally any social or financial danger is worse than a bad joke.

Edit

Sounded more hostile than I meant, sorry, just mean to say that implying tras ever had a chance of cancelling them was, well... Silly? Sorry.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I mean, Being fired and being canceled are two different things. You can’t really cancel someone most people don’t know. I already acknowledged that people who refer to themselves as gc/radfem are vilified, threatened, etc and why. So the only one implying what you’re saying I implied is you.

You can literally go on any social media and read any relevant comment section and see thousands of people call out tra bullshit. Most of them don’t lose their jobs or even get their accounts suspended. I know this because I can still see their comments and their account. Yes it does happen sometimes, and it shouldn’t. But my point is still that there are just as many “bigots” online expressing themselves as there are “people just trying to live their truth”.

My whole point was that most people think and say the same shit that the people who do get canceled or fired say- they just don’t call themselves gc/radfems or they aren’t women. And again, even when they do, they don’t generally face repercussions other than tras ganging up on them online while likeminded individuals gang up on the tras.

The point wasn’t even about social or financial danger- it’s about the signs that the general public agrees with gc points more than qt points, regardless of what happens to the person making the points. The point is that when it comes down to it, most people see where Gc is coming from when they have to think deeper on the subject than they normally would.

And some tras literally posted jk Rowling’s personal address online encouraging people to harass her. so she actually could have been in danger. And she got the same death and rape threats most gc women get, probably a thousand times over.

And Ben Shapiro, Matt Walsh, and Blaire White are all people who could easily be canceled. And they certainly do not have more wealth than small countries. Idk Shapiro’s net worth but for sure the other two.

They attempted to cancel Rowling and punish Chappelle- the general public laughed at them and rolled their eyes for it. THAT’S my point.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (50 children)

I know because I pay attention and listen to other people. Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics- even on Reddit when trans people come up (not on trans related subs), most people confirm what I’m saying. They don’t hold opinions i disagree with- check comments on YouTube, Facebook (though they delete comments a lot there), or people out side of your gender bubble, they agree with GC, withouy even knowing what gc is.

Reddit is not a representative of the entire population. For the most accurate results it's best to survey a large number of random people.

I'm not saying there aren't any gender critical views expressed on reddit. There certainly is, especially on r/OffMyChest and r/AskGayBros. But the biggest GC subs got banned including r/GenderCritical, r/GenderCriticalGuys, r/LGBdroptheT, r/ThisNeverHappens and r/Cancelled. YouTube channels also get banned that GCs have to upload their videos to Odysee. https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/62147/gc-youtubers-moving-to-odysee

I don't think any and all people who hold different opinions than I do are simps. There are thousands of various opinions and beliefs I respect even if I don’t agree, but in this specific subject, absolutely if you’ve allowed a group of obviously extremely mentally ill and that D word I can’t use people convince you that what they are claiming makes even a little bit of sense- brainwashed, or simp.

I know GCs think of trans people as the D word, the word for the cluster B personality disorder, fetishists, AGPs and fujoshis.

So while yes, the concept of TERFS/radfems/gc are vilified (because we are women…), by and large, the opinions of the general populace who don’t call themselves radfems/gc are allover the interwebs, babes. And they don’t agree with tras. At all.

You get vilified because of your anti-trans views, not because you're women. GC subs even those that were male dominated like r/GenderCriticalGuys and r/LGBdroptheT were banned. I've sent an email to reddit admins to make the mod of r/AskGayBros clean up the anti-trans comments or clean it up themselves and perhaps to add a gay trans man to moderate the sub, and I've even corrected my own dad when he purposefully misgendered trans celebrities. My dad is a cis man. It doesn't matter if you're a man or a woman. If you hold anti-trans views, I will treat you the same.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats. The only difference is that they are men. They are saying the same shit as radfems. It’s absurd to pretend this isn’t true when it’s out there to hear, read and see. The fact that you have to ask a sub to clean up because the men there say things you don’t like is not proving you’re right- it’s proving you’re wrong.

Nobody, generally speaking, gives a fuck about you trying to be a dictator lol. You think it means anything to the general public that some rando is preaching to them? Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working. The rest of us don’t care, it’s just that some of us will be polite and pretend it’s not ridiculous to call a man she/her or a woman he/him.

You just said Reddit doesn’t represent the population so idk why you think it matters that it’s run by tras and they banned some subs. They banned those subs because they were offended by what people who aren’t tras think.

Once again- you just prove my point for me. It’s like we’re a team.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (48 children)

Im very well aware that Reddit is not a representative of the whole population lmao

What I meant is the best way to find out what the general population thinks about something is to survey a large number of random people. You said "Everything doesn’t have to be studies and statistics" even though studies and statistics are the most accurate.

Im saying you can see for yourself, even in data, like the data you linked that proves my point, whatever you want to use, be they comments or polls, most people are gc when it comes down to it.

I know the link I posted says support for trans rights slightly decreased in 2 years. However you said what I want is what an "incredibly small portion of the population wants" do directly quote you. I posted the link to prove that’s not the case. 54.5% is not an "incredibly small portion of the population." Also, every poll poll I found has one thing in common. Women are more likely to be supportive of trans rights than men.

There are plenty of gender critical style videos on YouTube. They just don’t use the phrase gender critical because they know not to or they don’t even know the term. To act as if you can’t find any gc views on YouTube is ridiculous.

I know there are GC videos on YouTube. However, many major sites banned GC views.

We get vilified because trans people know they can attack and vilify women. Plenty of men are outright disgusted my trans people or make fun of them or just don’t agree and they aren’t getting death and rape threats.

Men who are anti-trans aren't popular either. Ben Shapiro is not popular among Americans including Jews like me. Men on r/AskGayBros have been called TERFs when they said something transphobic. When I use the term TERF, I include men.

Tras bitch and moan all day every day and will continue to do so because it’s not working.

Then why have most major websites banned GC views, including GC men?

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s gender critical views that are banned from many major websites, including Reddit, YouTube, Twitter, etc. Ovarit even has an entire circle of people who are "cancelled" for gender critical views. Have you heard of TRAs being cancelled?

Shouldn't this be proof that the average person is only hearing one side, i.e. the transactivist's side? What have you to say about my question over transactivist's secretism? Why the ACLU and lawmakers don't want American citizens learn how many "TW" are being housed in women's prisons in Washington? They mention privacy concerns, but the numbers can be given without being tied to the indivuduals. So, what is there to hide?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

No I haven’t heard of tra being cancelled despite alok venon saying little girls are kinky and like sex, despite thousands of tweets about raping, maiming, murdering, and enslaving women and girls, despite knowing about pedophiles in their ranks, despite trying to destroy women-run businesses, despite having crisis shelters for women closed down, despite public discussions about helping little girls insert tampons, despite the protection of dangerous individuals like amy challenor moderating subreddits for children, despite admittances of violence, hatred, homicidal ideation, sexual objectification, and desire to harm women.

Are these actions morally acceptable to you because the men who did them weren’t cancelled?

Do you truly want to say that a woman saying “woman is adult human female” is the worst act listed here?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (52 children)

No I haven’t heard of tra being cancelled despite alok venon saying little girls are kinky and like sex, despite thousands of tweets about raping, maiming, murdering, and enslaving women and girls, despite knowing about pedophiles in their ranks, despite trying to destroy women-run businesses, despite having crisis shelters for women closed down, despite public discussions about helping little girls insert tampons, despite the protection of dangerous individuals like amy challenor moderating subreddits for children, despite admittances of violence, hatred, homicidal ideation, sexual objectification, and desire to harm women.

Are these actions morally acceptable to you because the men who did them weren’t cancelled?

Not everyone who does this is a man.

Do you truly want to say that a woman saying “woman is adult human female” is the worst act listed here?

GCs have done worse than that. Here are examples:

  1. GCs have harassed a trans woman on a sewing sub. There is a thread on Ovarit titled Just got permanently banned from r/sewing. Apparently a trans woman posted an outfit on r/sewing and according to OP she admitted that she didn’t sew it and didn’t know how to sew. So I searched for the reddit thread on https://camas.github.io/reddit-search/ and found the thread which was deleted. You can view the deleted comments here. https://www.reveddit.com/v/sewing/comments/q47mqk/deleted_by_user/

I will even share part of the comment chain.

termagant_

Badly executed and bad concept.

Terrible-Ad6206

Yikes! You didn’t need to comment! Go be a jerk somewhere else.

termagant_

Hey don’t post crap.

Terrible-Ad6206

This is the sewing subreddit. Why come in so hostile? Go away troll.

Marty-8

Why post on a sewing sub when you obviously don’t sew? You’re just a male colonialist on a women’s sub. It must make you euphoric.

Terrible-Ad6206

I’m a woman. I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make. All because I haven’t posted doesn’t mean I don’t sew? Why all this hostility? Is this what r/sewing is like? Maybe I don’t want to be here…

I didn't know r/sewing is a women's sub now. Anyway, the OP never said she didn't sue that corset. And why did they have to bring up her gender? Would they bring up race if she was black?

  1. There was a thread on the old GC sub criticizing J. Lo for doing a strip tease at the super bowl.

Unlike the vast majority of women who are paid to be objectified, these two women are not poor victims in any sense. They are victimizers. These women are idolized by millions, yet choose to use their platforms to teach young girls that it's cool to be objectified by men.

OK, if you find doing a strip tease objectifying than don't do it. That doesn't make J. Lo a victimizer in any sense.

  1. When Elliot Page came out, Ovarit had an entire thread calling him slurs. One comment said "shattered by her deeply misogynistic and lesbophobic move" even though I can't recall Page saying anything misogynistic and lesbophobic, and he was once a lesbian himself. Another comment said "This is literal conversion therapy." Which IMO is insulting to actual victims of conversion therapy.

  2. They dislike Buck Angel has a career in porn. Buck is against medically transitioning minors, and even in a tweet said he doesn't like the term "cis". Despite this, Ovarit continues to refer to Buck as "she". "You're so right that her "dysphoria" makes no sense. It's insane that Buck is cool with being sexually degraded just like any other woman in porn." https://ovarit.com/o/GenderCritical/59881/buck-angel-is-a-joke

  3. Cis men do porn. 2. If Buck personally doesn't find doing porn degrading, then it's not degrading. How can you feel degraded for someone else?

  4. GCs harass a trans woman in the bathroom. Here is a thread from the old GC sub. https://archive.ph/IPJI4#selection-2051.0-2058.0

Was shamed last night for asking why there was a man in the women’s restroom.

I heard the voice of a man through the stall door at a bar last night and was taken aback. Why was there a man in the women’s restroom??? I asked why he was in there and was yelled at by him and his friend for misgendering him. We’re being shamed in our own restrooms now for legitimate questions of why a male voice would be heard in the women’s restroom. I’m so angry.

This person wasn't bothering OP, yet OP had to harass her.

  1. I've seen comments on Ovarit about how every trans woman is a fetishist or AGP.

  2. Ovarit believes plastic surgery should be illegal. https://ovarit.com/o/WomensLiberation/28559/cosmetic-plastic-surgery-should-be-illegal

  3. Just today there was a thread titled If Laverne Cox is an inspiring black woman then so is Rachel Dolezal. Like how? Laverne Cox is a black woman. Rachel Dolezal is woman but she isn't black.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You once again gave no answer and instead made a giant whataboutism and reverted back to chanting TWAW.

Are you able to actually debate with intellectual honesty gb? What is preventing you from giving yes or no answers? What is compelling you to bring out repeated copy+paste points like the j-Lo one, when I and other users have already broken down why they are not refutations of the arguments you use them to respond to.

I can’t tell if it’s unwillingness or inability to follow what’s being said but I just can’t with you gb. It’s like you are always responding to someone or something else, never the point at hand and never real answer.

Yes or no gb, is it morally acceptable for adult human males to say that little girls are kinky and don’t need protection from sexually interested adults because the statement did not get the speaker cancelled on Twitter. It’s got nothing to do with jlo or Elliot page or the laws in your state or the slogans you think need repeating. Yes or no.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes or no gb, is it morally acceptable for adult human males to say that little girls are kinky and don’t need protection from sexually interested adults because the statement did not get the speaker cancelled on Twitter.

It's not acceptable for ANYONE to say that, male or female. But that is not the reason we dislike gender critical.

[–]Juniperius 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

The fact that you believe that any of these examples come anywhere near to being in the same galaxy of bad or harmful as advocating for sexual assault against children is... telling.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

So you think it's OK to question a random strangers presence in a PUBLIC SPACE when they are not harassing or bothering you? I'm not OK with advocating for sexual assault against children but two wrongs don't make a right.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just today there was a thread titled If Laverne Cox is an inspiring black woman then so is Rachel Dolezal.

Nothing to add here so please ignore me. but this is actually hilarious and perfect.

Like how? Laverne Cox is a black woman

Like how indeed lol

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Also- "Compared to 2017, backing for the policy is numerically higher across all partisan groups"

This is for people in favor of them using spaces designated for their sex. Sex. Not gender identity. Your link doesn’t prove what you think it proves. It proves that more people want them to use the proper sex based space than in 2017.

[–]beris😎 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think the study is great. Really shows how a majority of people don't hate trans people (especially when you exclude the religious right), we just don't want them to intrude on spaces they dont belong in.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. I love when tras accidentally prove themselves wrong and prove that we aren’t bigots