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[–]beris😎 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Old and disabled men arent nearly at the risk of visibly gay and other non-het men. Doesn't excuse it, but it is something to keep in mind that in some parts of the world that kind of presentation will actively put you im danger in intimate spaces.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I singled out disabled and old men because they a more physically vulnerable than other males and have a lesser chance of fighting back. Like MT said not every instance of violence is hate crime.

Anyway, I don't blame "transmen" for fleeing male's spaces. Though, they can't expect to be taken seriously when, on one hand, claim to be "real men" and, on the other hand, seek the safety of women's spaces and call bigot anyone who suggest that may be the reason they are vulnerable in men's spaces it's because they are female.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It never ceases to amaze me that some people seem utterly convinced that "visibly gay and non-het men" are the most at-risk and "in danger" segment of the male population, far more than elderly men, physically and mentally disabled boys and men, and little boys. Such an assumption comes from same exact kind of myopic, clearly MALE-centric (and ageist and ableist) point of view which believes "trans women experience higher rates of male violence, sexual assault and homicide" than females do, and that "trans people are the most vulnerable, marginalized, discriminated against and put-upon group in society."

On the issue of why females who identify as men continue to use female spaces: safety is a big factor, but there's more to it than that. This is illustrated by the current situation in Ivy League swimming in the US. Both the male who "identifies as" a woman, Lia Thomas of Penn, and the female who "identifies as" a man, Iszac Henig of Yale, are competing in the women's category - and presumably using the women's locker and change rooms, toilets, and bunking with the women when traveling. We're told that because of "gender dysphoria," the male must be allowed to be with the women - that if a "gender dysphoric" male had to compete with/against other males, it would create intolerable mental and emotional anguish and likely lead to suicide. So how, then, is it that the female who is suffering from the same exact malady - gender dysphoria - is able to compete in the women's category and share spaces with women without suffering the kind of break down we're told the male would surely experience if the tables were turned? Sexist double standards and male supremacy abound here. One way that both the male and the female swimmers who "identify as" the opposite sex are united is in their utter disdain for women who don't identify as other than our sex, and in their total lack of caring about the impact of their selfish behaviors on "cis" girls and women at their schools, and in women's collegiate swimming.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, this thread ended up focusing more on the safety issue, but I agree that is not the only thing motivating females who identify as "men" (or anythin else than women). It was reading about Iszac Henig what made me writing this post. I swear if you made a movie about Henig and Lia Thomas, and showed it to an unaware audience and they wouldn't believe it was based in real events rather than just being an unrealistic comedy.