QT: Why TM don't mind using women's spaces when it suits them? And why TW don't follow their example?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Obligatory not QT, but trans. I feel like there could be a few different answers. As u/Beris was saying, it just might not be as safe and men could be more likely to be upset by your presence. Maybe trans males might feel less sense of community or kinship with men/boys from growing up than trans females might feel with women/girls. I don’t know that for sure, but I feel like it would explain a lot. There is a part of just respecting boundaries less too, especially in instances where a person is obviously male. Females are socialized to care more about others feelings and males often times aren’t. I know GC isn’t happy any trans males using women’s bathroom, but if you pass, it is usually less disruptive in public to use the bathroom that matches how you look.

[–]beris😎 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I know the common response to the argument is "it's not women's job to sort out men's problems", but I've always felt that's too much of an oversimplification of the issue. I personally don't feel it's my responsibility to take on part of the collective burden toxic masculinity has on trans people, but at the same time I don't think its reasonable to put that on the backs on people with zero social power to enact that change. Go to the bathroom you look like you're supposed to use, don't use changing rooms or any other more intimate women's spaces, the world will continue to rotate.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't think its reasonable to put that on the backs on people with zero social power to enact that change.

Why do you think they have no social power? So far trans identified people have the support of several goverments, political parties and big companies. They have conviced lots of people that "misgendering" is an unforgivable offense and even news outlets that are critical of transgenderims make sure to respect "prefered pronouns". They have succesfully imposed their own terminology even when it's unaccurate (e.g. sex assigned at birth). They are being succesfully at eroding women's spaces, even prissons. There are many males competing in women's sports. And I could keep going on with the list... It's not that transactivists have no political power, it's that they don't want any other solution. Males claiming to be women feel entintled to our spaces and every time you suggest building third spaces they complain this is like racial seggregation.

[–]beris😎 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Why do you think they have no social power

Sorry, I should have been more specific. Specifically, they don't have the social power to change toxic and violent masculinity specifically. They have political and social power, just not the kind that would do anything in this specific situation.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Fair enough, but I think this is still a matter of willingness. They can't expect other males stop being violents when transactivists themselves allow a good deal of toxic behaviour within their own ranks. Also the danger posed to males claiming to be "women", especially in western countries, is being overstated on the Media.

https://4w.pub/breaking-down-claims-of-a-trans-genocide/

https://unherd.com/2022/01/the-truth-about-trans-murders/

[–]beris😎 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for the links. I figured they were overstated but its nice to have numbers to point at. Cheers.