Identity

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If an identity is taken to mean just the summation of what or who someone or something is, if one really sees their being the opposite sex as a fact, then they would just see it as a fact. I believe that can be the case, especially for children. But that would be maybe just the idea of identifying as something. To identify with something or someone, I would think it's just recognizing similarities or feeling connection or kinship or something like that, like noticing one has more traits that seem to be common with the opposite sex--that person doesn't genuinely believe themselves to be a member of that sex.

But I think that's part of the conclusion that dysphoric children reach that Peaking touched on: as a child, you might conclude you are the opposite sex because of the similarities you see between yourself and members of that sex, or all of the stereotypes and generalizations attributed to that sex. For me, it seemed like the whole world was constantly telling me in many ways that I was a girl or supposed to be one, so that's the conclusion I made.

Why should an adult or anyone who knows or knew better identify as the opposite sex? I'm not sure. For me, it is a fact still that I was supposed to be born a girl (or so I was repeatedly told), like a matter-of-fact medical fact which I find impossible to ignore. I took the idea that I was supposed to be born a girl to mean that I am supposed to be female. Maybe it isn't true for others, or it's too general to apply to most trans people, but somehow a person must be convinced in some way that they are or are supposed to be the opposite sex (or have no sex, or be both)--and it's easier to be convinced of something if everyone is telling you or demonstrating to you that it seemingly is the case.

Affirmation seems to be the key to perpetuating and strengthening any beliefs, so affirming 'woman' or 'man' as an identity that one has that might not match their sex makes sense how even someone who never believed such a thing about themselves would grow to see that as a fact. The whole concept of 'cracking eggs' is a great, albeit horrifying demonstration of that.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

if one really sees their being the opposite sex as a fact, then they would just see it as a fact

But how though? Lol that’s what I’m trying to figure out. How can someone just believe something that the very fact of their body disproves?

I get what you’re saying in general, and you as usual make great points. I just don’t see how I could look at my female body and think I’m the opposite sex.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm with you Sloane in not being any closer to figuring out this "identify as" phenomenon so it makes more sense.

Another thing I have a hard time wrapping my head around is the notion that boys can grow up thinking they are girls when their male gonads and genitals are right there in their laps/crotches where they can see them just by looking down - and they handle their penises each time they pee. Whereas girls' genitals are tucked between our legs in such a way that we never see them really until we get older and look with a mirror, we don't touch and hold them with our hands each time we pee - and of course, we never see or touch our gonads, unlike guys who are always scratching and "adjusting" theirs.

Then when boys start puberty and their dicks and balls start growing, they get spontaneous erections, have wet dreams, and start masturbating and intentionally ejaculating. I can't imagine how when all that stuff is going on that boys hold on to the idea inculcated early in childhood that they're somehow really girls. It's not that I don't believe it happens - clearly it does, from what peaking and Fleurista say. It's just that my powers of imagination are too limited...

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Now that I'm really thinking about it, I kind of see a way to explain this that might make sense that both you and Sloane touched on: I feel like basically as a young child, I accidentally embodied QT. So, the conclusions that QT adolescents, teens and adults make and assert about sex and gender and stereotypes are conclusions naturally reached by a child who wouldn't know any other reality. That's sort of how I see it, because much of what QT espouses is in line with my thinking as a child. That would explain why I feel like those views are immature or 'childish', just because that's the kind of thinking I would have as a child. I think those beliefs only really hold (or hold as best as they can) if there is no other point of reference. So, to a child like that sex truly is just a blend of superficial and stereotypical things that have nothing to do with sex. Maybe that's not the case at all, though, but that thought struck me as I was driving home today.

ETA: OK so maybe QT was derived from the lived accounts told by adult transsexuals who grew up with dysphoria from childhood, and it's all been misappropriated by people who do not understand what this experience is like. So, it's the beliefs and accounts taken from transsexuals, but trying to apply them to people who have not lived with this confusion their whole lives--sort of akin to trying to sing a song of which you know the lyrics, but you don't know the melody. Obviously adults and older kids can become dysphoric, too, but I think the treatment and methodology of how to deal with it is just taken from what is standard for transsexuals who grew up this way.