Identity

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I guess I just think- sex is so clearly visible allover. I don’t get how someone can look at their penis and think “woman” or their vagina and think “man”

My son knows he’s a boy and he knows girls have vaginas. Of course he’s not dysphoric or dealing with people telling him he was meant to be a girl- but I know too many small children (that sounds creepy, my husband has 4 siblings and they all have hella kids and my brother has three kids lol, we have a huge family with lots of kids. Just had to clarify) who understand the basics of sex and the differences between the two sexes to be able to understand how someone just thinks they are the opposite sex. Even if you think that as a very young child, you’d have to be sheltered from any fact of sex for your whole life to still think this by the time you’re like 6/7. Sex is just way too obvious. How can you even watch tv or read and not understand the truth of your body?

Like I get how light brown hair may be called blonde, I don’t see anyone saying “yeah my penis and lack of breasts or a period etc must mean Im a female”

I get thinking you should have been, I don’t get thinking you are

It took us a while to potty train my son. It took him a few minutes to understand why he had to stand when he peed but sit when he did the other lol

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Most kids can probably tell the difference that way if it's presented to them or they are somehow made aware of it, even just noticing. I indeed had a very isolated and sheltered childhood without other children around most of the time, so I didn't really have lots of opportunities where I could learn that difference. If my parents tried to teach me at some point, I have absolutely no memory of it, and based on what my mother has told me it doesn't sound like she or my father ever tried to make that clear. It's actually still surprising to me that children so young could recognize the difference between sexes and understand the physical differences between boys and girls, just because that was completely foreign to me.

You might be right then, maybe that is the only sort of scenario where one would genuinely believe they were they opposite sex, and it would probably be a very uncommon one. I haven't met anyone who came about that sort of conclusion in that way, but from experience I can say that it can indeed happen! lol

And that doesn't sound creepy at all lol just steer clear of ever using a Michael Scott-esque username like 'LittleKidLover' and you're golden!

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I totally think, especially in today’s world, that some kids can grow up in an environment where they don’t get a clear understanding of sex because it’s either not being explained adequately or at all (or situations like yours). I just don’t think it’s the norm, not even for kids who will end up transitioning. I’d think it would be extremely rare, especially in the past when we were kids. So I’m thinking more kids struggling with gender/sex should have a pretty solid grasp on the concept of sex and their actual sex than don’t. But again I do accept there are situations where that’s not the case.

Sex was never made into a huge deal in my family, but we all understood it. I grew up in a more open household (like- zero boundaries lol) so maybe my brother and I had a more thorough explanation about sex before we started school, but even at school the other kids understood sex. I learned about periods from my classmate well before my mother intended to talk to me about them lmao. And my brother had a girl in his class explain that she had a vagina and babies came out of it. And then she showed her vagina. That kind of thing actually happens fairly often with younger kids. Most kids do understand that there are differences between boys and girls, even if they don’t understand with any nuance or detail.

And now I have to convince myself not to make my flair LittleKidLover lol

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I definitely don't think it's the norm, even among those who transition like you say. I would have thought there would be less chance of something like that happening in contemporary times because of the widespread availability of information and the ability to communicate with others, but maybe that's what you're getting at that would make it extra confusing for kids now... which is kind of depressing. Just having more information and people in my life to talk to or teach me things or learn from maybe would have been sufficient to prevent my belief from taking hold. But seeing all that stuff about multiple genders and sex and the differences between them and that sort of thing is even confusing for me as an adult, these poor kids today must be horribly confused and lost. What's weird is maybe both extremes could foster an identification like that, either being totally ignorant or being inundated with information (especially early on). It would have been nice and probably incredibly helpful to know about gender nonconformity and being gay and that sort of stuff, but having the dirge of LGBTQ+ 'information' be almost seemingly forced onto kids like it is now doesn't seem necessarily very helpful either by confusing or distressing them either.

Sex was never made into a huge deal in my family, but we all understood it. I grew up in a more open household (like- zero boundaries lol) so maybe my brother and I had a more thorough explanation about sex before we started school, but even at school the other kids understood sex. I learned about periods from my classmate well before my mother intended to talk to me about them lmao. And my brother had a girl in his class explain that she had a vagina and babies came out of it. And then she showed her vagina. That kind of thing actually happens fairly often with younger kids. Most kids do understand that there are differences between boys and girls, even if they don’t understand with any nuance or detail.

That's really interesting, I do wonder if I had siblings or older cousins if I would have learned more or been taught about that stuff. It sounds like you grew up in like the complete opposite sort of environment regarding that sort of stuff, that all sounds so strange and unthinkable to me! Was sex and peoples' sexes not a taboo subject in general, like even outside of your home? I can see kids being curious and exposing themselves like that, but were adults also relatively open? Obviously not exposing themselves (I hope!)

And now I have to convince myself not to make my flair LittleKidLover lol

Probably the best decision, although I secretly want you to because it really would be hilarious 😂

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

but maybe that's what you're getting at that would make it extra confusing for kids now... which is kind of depressing

Yes That’s exactly what I was getting at. I think it’s easier for me to accept the idea of a child (or rather more children in general) being confused about sex as an entire concept, but especially about their own sex. Particularly in today’s climate.

I am honestly expecting a lot of cases of people who are children now or were a few years ago suing over the blockers and all of that stuff. I think a lot of children and teens are getting sucked into the tra side of trans issues and are being influenced. It’s everywhere. I notice it a lot even with the shows I play for my oldest (that’s still so weird to me to say or type! Sorry lol it’s just funny to me), they’re talking about gender identity and sexuality in some of those shows.

I think kids with dysphoria obviously exist, but I think the idea of gender identity and being trans is something that people should maybe come to on their own instead of it being pushed and taught. I think the concept is accessible enough now that they could learn about it on their own and then look into talking to someone about it, if that makes sense. Like I’d think that’s the way to ensure that the people transitioning will actually be the ones who “need” it instead of people doing things because they were influenced at a vulnerable and impressionable age. Idk if that made any sense lol

Was sex and peoples' sexes not a taboo subject in general, like even outside of your home?

My mom worked with an lgbt center and we were always around lgbt people so I think maybe our parents just thought it best to be upfront. She would always invite the “lgbt orphans” for holidays and sometimes just dinners and stuff. They explained being trans to us specifically because she was (and still is) close friends with a TW and we spent a lot of time together and my mother wanted us to understand. Other than that, both of my parents explained when we asked (in an appropriate but honest way) or when it was necessary (like me coming home from school terrified because my classmate randomly informed me that I’d start bleeding out of my vagina lol). They have always been very open about anything from sex and sexuality to drugs and anything else. I think it’s why I lack any type of filter lol. They always made sure we knew we could ask them anything and be honest about how we felt and what we thought. It’s why when I knew I was bi I had no fear of telling them or dating whoever I wanted. But I acknowledge that I was very lucky to have that and not everyone does. Nobody was inappropriate.

That's really interesting, I do wonder if I had siblings or older cousins if I would have learned more or been taught about that stuff.

Oh yeah older cousins will tell you EVERYTHING about everything lol

Probably the best decision, although I secretly want you to because it really would be hilarious

Im gonna pick a random day and use it as a flair just to see if you notice lol

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's incredibly worrisome and angering that that sort of thing is being introduced and pushed onto children early on in their lives. It's intentionally confusing, cruel and I fear that it's like this mass manufactured transsexualism that these kids are being set up for. This is not a good experience, no child should grow up that way and have to deal with the ramifications of that for the rest of their lives. It makes life unnecessarily difficult and painful, and makes it harder for children (or anyone) to love and accept themselves exactly for all of who and what they are. I am sorry I see it that way, but to me it is incredibly cruel or irresponsible at best.

I think kids with dysphoria obviously exist, but I think the idea of gender identity and being trans is something that people should maybe come to on their own instead of it being pushed and taught. I think the concept is accessible enough now that they could learn about it on their own and then look into talking to someone about it, if that makes sense. Like I’d think that’s the way to ensure that the people transitioning will actually be the ones who “need” it instead of people doing things because they were influenced at a vulnerable and impressionable age. Idk if that made any sense lol

That makes complete sense! I would agree, we could even redirect the energy of this contemporary societal obsession with transgenderism and gender into figuring out early interventions to help kids better understand sex and sex-based roles, and prevent transsexualism and/or dysphoria from happening in the first place. I've grown more and more of the opinion that there has to be a way to avoid transitioning, I see transitioning is more like the calmative or antidepressant medication that is just intended to help a patient relax enough to attend therapy.

My mom worked with an lgbt center and we were always around lgbt people so I think maybe our parents just thought it best to be upfront. She would always invite the “lgbt orphans” for holidays and sometimes just dinners and stuff. They explained being trans to us specifically because she was (and still is) close friends with a TW and we spent a lot of time together and my mother wanted us to understand. Other than that, both of my parents explained when we asked (in an appropriate but honest way) or when it was necessary (like me coming home from school terrified because my classmate randomly informed me that I’d start bleeding out of my vagina lol). They have always been very open about anything from sex and sexuality to drugs and anything else. I think it’s why I lack any type of filter lol. They always made sure we knew we could ask them anything and be honest about how we felt and what we thought. It’s why when I knew I was bi I had no fear of telling them or dating whoever I wanted. But I acknowledge that I was very lucky to have that and not everyone does. Nobody was inappropriate.

Wow. Your experience growing up in this kind of environment with the parents and adults and kids you had in your life is really amazing to me! That sounds incredibly cool. I mean, maybe it wasn't totally cool for you, but from the opposite side of things it seems like a really great experience to have as a kid, especially growing up as a bisexual kid. Did you ever experience any confusion really at all regarding your sexuality or sex? It doesn't sound like it, but I don't want to just assume... it's just hard to comprehend!

Your experience growing up lends so much more credence to the idea that it's a matter of confusion or misunderstanding regarding sex and gender that is a huge factor in dysphoria or cross-sex identification from developing. You were surrounded by LGBT people and culture and were told about just sex, and you never developed dysphoria or believed you weren't female (assuming again, please correct me if I'm wrong!).

Oh yeah older cousins will tell you EVERYTHING about everything lol

I'm the oldest grandchild on both sides of my family, I hope I haven't corrupted my little cousins lol 😂 Definitely not the best teacher

Im gonna pick a random day and use it as a flair just to see if you notice lol

Challenge gladly accepted 😁

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see transitioning is more like the calmative or antidepressant medication that is just intended to help a patient relax enough to attend therapy

That’s such an interesting view. I think I agree with you, it just never occurred to me to phrase it that way. But it makes sense.

Did you ever experience any confusion really at all regarding your sexuality or sex?

I didn’t paste all of this part but I’m super lucky to have had the childhood I had. I was surrounded by lgbt and creative people and it was wonderful!

I didn’t have any confusion, I just remember I developed crushes on two siblings and felt guilty for that lol. I had a crush on my friend, and then her brother. I think at first I thought I was a lesbian because the first attraction I felt was for a female, but I never felt weird about realizing I was bi because nobody around me really cared as long as they knew who I was spending my time with. I told my parents I was a lesbian, then that I was bi, both times they were just like, “okay. Thanks for telling us.”

My parents were weird about my brother going vegan, oddly enough lol.

I didn’t develop any type of dysphoria or anything, but I was shy about girls because I had absolutely zero gaydar. I felt much more insecure when it came to girls/women.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I see transitioning is more like the calmative or antidepressant medication that is just intended to help a patient relax enough to attend therapy.

Now this is an idea to really gnaw on fleur! Gonna be thinking bout this for days

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I see transitioning is more like the calmative or antidepressant medication that is just intended to help a patient relax enough to attend therapy.

Now this is an idea to really gnaw on fleur! Gonna be thinking bout this for days