Both: How would you define my sexual orientation?

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

My own subjective self-image is not an issue here coz I am not trying to impose my internal feelings, thoughts and imaginings about myself onto the world and other people in it. I'm not demanding that other people take seriously what I believe about myself and show my ideas about myself respect.

You are demanding your conception of identity define how everyone is treated, not just you. You want your ideas to control how we are treated.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No, that's not true, and you know it. I'm a pluralist and democrat. I want laws, public policy and social customs to be decided by all the various kinds of people who make up society working together and based on democratic principles and objective material and social reality that's measurable, verifiable and widely agreed upon. I want all sides to have ample opportunity to discuss, present evidence and engage in vigorous debate where everyone gets a chance to have their views heard.

Whereas you want laws, public policy and social customs to be decreed in dictatorial fashion by you and others who constitute a tiny, self-selected, self-serving special interest group and whose members all believe that a) the subjective feelings that individuals like you have about yourselves matter more than objective reality that the rest of society agrees on; and b) the desire/need of a tiny authoritarian minority to get your own way and to bend the world to your will should take precedence over other people with different views being able to have, hold on to and exercise their/our rights and freedoms.

I don't want to control you. I don't want you to be mistreated, either. I think you should be protected from discrimination and able to live your life as you wish without harassment, abuse or violence.

But at the same time, I also don't think the totally unverifiable claims you and others make about the "identities" you have in your heads are a good foundation on which to make law, public policy and to try to build a fair society. You're the one who wants a society based on coercive control, not I.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I want a society where oppressed groups have protections allowing them to actually participate in a society even if they are relatively small in number.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do too. The difference is that I don't think participating in society means making other people participate in, play along with, "validate" and "affirm" your/their own subjective self-image.

Also, I have a hunch that I've actually done a whole lot more IRL to help insure that oppressed groups have protections that allow them to participate in society to the fullest extent possible whether they are relatively small in number - like lesbians & gays, persons with disabilities and rare "orphan" diseases, people who are homeless, persons who are mentally ill - or they are large in number yet still oppressed - like girls & women, the majority black population of South Africa and Namibia who were subjected to apartheid, or the many millions of people around the world who in my lifetime have become refugees due to warfare, tyranny, famine and natural disasters.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Except you obviously don’t Care about access or participation for trans people.

And believe what you want about me but I certainly suspect your hunch is false.