QT: Is there such a thing as a man wants to be a woman? + 10 additional questions

submitted by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The DSM-V is a living document, updated annually, it's the authority where consensus on the transgender topic is concerned.

Girls transitioning is a phenomenon called ROGD & is just a trend that will disappear as suddenly in about 10 years from now as it appeared about 10 years ago. ROGD shouldn't be confused with early-onset dysphoria. Treating two different things as if they are the same is not equality or redressing the balance.

I'm not the one who shifted discussion. You are actually the one who butted in (twice). I'm the one who introduced the topic of suicide rates (after CMOW said detransition was vanishingly rare, I pointed out that so is suicide), which CMOW predictably shifted to self-reported attempted suicides in a patronising attempt to bolster the suicide rate (by diluting it). That was the first time you, disappointingly, butted in in order to take the bait of talking about self-reported attempted suicides, instead of just sticking with suicides. Once I pointed out the distinction between suicide & non-suicide to CMOW, you butted in a second time "correcting" me on my use of "early-onset dysphorics", at which point you introduced girls who attempted suicide.

Just bc I wish to stay on topic doesn't mean the suicide rate of male dysphorics is all that matters in the world forever. We recognise that men & women are different. So why should a discussion about one include the other, when they have practically nothing in common?

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

If you're using the DMS-V as the only authoritative voice about gender dysphoria, I'm pretty sure ROGD is not included on it. Also, it's a bold claim to make ROGD will just dissapear in ten years. What are you even basing this prediction on?

Moreover, the suicide mith is used to justify social and medical "transition" of trans identified children and teens regardless of their sex or when their gender dysphoria began. So, although it's important to make the distinction between the different populations, it seems relevant to include teenager girls in the discussion, especially considering they make up the biggest group right now.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I never said that the DSM-V is the only authoritative voice, only that it reflects a consensus & is up-to-date. Normally I only get flack from the sex-reassignment cult for quoting the DSM-V because it validates autogynaephila more than a few times.

Abigail Shier is pretty much an expert on ROGD & she has said that she believes it'll disappear in about 10 years & I agree with her. The ROGD social contagion has more in common with the emo-craze than it does with the homosexual throwbacks that transsexuals are.

I agree that teenage girls are relevant to the discussion (they are the majority of suicide attempts, medical mutilations, & detransitioners), but I felt like the way they were being included was in a way that veered too far from the topic e.g. demonstration on how high the attempted suicide rate is among girls who aren't self-assigned gender-swap role-players, in the middle of me trying to point out that suicide is rare among male dysphorics & shouldn't be confused with failed suicide attempts.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It doesn't stop being a bold claim just because Abigail Shrier said so. Abigail has made a great job on bringing awareness about ROGD, but still she is a journalist, not the one treating these girls. She is also too invested in the idea of "true trans", and I think that is coloring her views. It was very disappointing to read in her most recent article that she seemingly doesn't see how Jazz Jennings and other people like him were basically "transed" by their parents.

She is counting on the social contagion, but even if the number go down it doesn't necessaryly mean the cases of teenager girld suddenly identifying as "boys" will just dissapear. And the comparison with the the emo-craze ends when you take into account there are too many people who are invested in making the "trans" kids and teens a thing. I'm not that optimist to think the factors that have lead to the increase in teen girls disavowing their sex will just dissapear in that short time.

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Any time you see gender-neutral language, like 'kids' & 'teens', then you know everyone is imagining boys anyway. "Trans kids & teens" doesn't necessitate the inclusion of girls. Also, so many of them identify as "non-binary", which no one takes seriously, which is probably half the reason they opt for identifying as binary boys.

The fact that ROGD appeared suddenly, recently, when it never used to exist, I think is a pretty good indicator that it will go away on its own. There are underlying problems that cause girls to self-harm in so many different ways. Until the underlying problem is found & solved they'll continue to find new & creative ways to harm themselves. The main problem is institutions sanctioning & assisting in their self-harm. However, veganism is also an identity-craze right now which the whole world accommodates for too, & that's definitely going to become an extinct fad, eventually.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender dysphoria didn't exist before the 20th century, but it's still a thing today even if wen't through a few name changes. Anorexia nervosa is also a social contagion, but it still exists. Actually, girls with anorexia seem to be overrepresented among the girls identifyng as "boys".

I wouldn't dismiss the girls who say they are "nonbinary" because seemingly for many this "identity" is a stepping stone to say they are the opposite sex.

And transactivists absolutely need girls if they want people to overlook the obvious fetishism present in the movement. Teen girls are more useful for that than teen boys. And because girls (and women, too) who claim to be te opposite sex are seen as less menacing, TRA have used them to advance the erasure of single-sex spaces. Furthermore, if there weren't girls and women who say they are anything else than female, how could TRA justify all those "inclusive" terms like "menstruators", "uterus-owners" or "bodies with vagina"?