GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces?

submitted by womanual from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]slushpilot 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

If there are coed helicopter flying clubs that women can access

That's exactly what I am saying though. The if means something. What if there aren't any, and the only one in your area says "men only"?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Honestly? Then form a woman’s only/coed club.

It’s a club. It’s not a necessity. And you only need a few people to make the group. It’s as simple as finding other people (of either sex or your own) who like flying helicopters (or whatever the club is for) and want to do it with you.

If women make a club for just women, do transwomen/any men get to join if there isn’t a coed one or one for only men?

GC would say no, (at least most of us). So I’m keeping that same energy.

Just like I ask TW why they want to access spaces where they aren’t welcome/wanted- why would a woman force her way into a men’s only club?

Even if there is no coed/female only- it’s just a club, not the actual ability to learn and practice and fly- oh well, sucks you can’t join the boys club but you can still enjoy your hobby and could still enjoy that same hobby with friends if you brought them along (in other words- made your own club).

If you make a club, you get to decide who is in it. If you want to be in a club and there isn’t one that works for you- make one. Especially if it’s something that’s just for a hobby.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We tell TW all the time to advocate for themselves and their own spaces instead of invading female spaces.

It’s a bit hypocritical to make a fuss over a luxury club when GC literally tells QT to respect sex based spaces even if it puts them in potential danger or makes their lives a bit more difficult to navigate. We tell them they need to advocate for themselves instead of disrupting what someone else already established for themselves. (And I think GC is right to tell them this)

So unless you advocate for allowing people to access spaces not meant for them if there isn’t a space that is intended for them- this is an odd take. Especially over something as superficial and insignificant as a club for a hobby.

I think it’s important to respect the boundaries put up by others, if I disregard or object to their boundaries I open myself up to mine being objected to and disregarded as well.

The men’s club wouldn’t prevent women from flying, wouldn’t even prevent women from flying with other women or with a group of men and women. It only prevents a woman from being surrounded by (and flying with or talking about flying with) men who didn’t want her there.

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I picked a ridiculous hobby like model helicopters as a stand-in for something that you're not likely to find very many people interested in: not enough for it to make sense to form 2 separate and exclusive clubs.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn’t matter what the example is- it’s still a club. Anyone can form their own club. You can substitute whatever less ridiculous hobby, what I said would still be my response.

Wanting a specific demographic and making a group for that demographic is enough reason to form however many groups as anyone wants to form. Whether or not the public approves or denounces the existence of the group is a different thing- the specific group can still exist, the people who feel some type of way can boycott (which wouldn’t matter), protest (likely wouldn’t matter), get over it, or form a club that includes them. Again, why would a woman want to force her way into a men’s club when she can invite people to her own club? There wouldn’t have been an all men’s club until some man or men made it. She can make a club herself. Again again- we tell transwomen to make their own and advocate for their own, why can’t a woman make her own club?

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You find other women who like the same thing and you make a women-only club.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like you missed the point of the Groucho Marx bit about not wanting to be a member of any club that would have him as a member. Why be a member of a club that doesn't want you as a member? How well with that go? Women's only knitting clubs have famously become toxic to women who take the "women's only" part seriously. This seems to be what happens when what you're saying is taken seriously.