For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom?

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[–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

women shouldn’t have to justify not wanting to share female spaces with men.

Segregating the sexes should be justified. Just saying "Because I wanna" doesn't cut it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I disagree.

Why do I have to explain to anyone why I want a space that’s already mine to remain mine?

If You want access to a space not meant for you, you ask the people the space belongs to for that access.

If they say no, tough shit. Women don’t owe transwomen a fucking thing, not even an explanation. They already know why, they just refuse to accept the why. I’m not ever going to get behind the idea that women have to justify wanting to maintain female spaces.

The answer is because it’s a female space. It’s that simple. And it’s okay that it’s that simple. We don’t owe males- any males- shit.

It’s already justified- which is why we don’t have to further justify it.

[–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Why do I have to explain to anyone why I want a space that’s already mine to remain mine?

Because excluding demographics from certain spaces has to have a fucking reason for it? Do you also think white people didn't have to justify the existence of whites-only spaces because "it was already theirs"? If you cannot provide any reason for it other than "Because I say so", then your argument is as valid as SelfID or appeal to tradition/status quo. If your exact same line your reasoning and arguments can be used equally to support things like white supremacy, then your logic is faulty and dangerous.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Like I said- sex based spaces already exist. They have to justify undoing that. We don’t have to justify maintaining it.

We have listed the reasons why so many fucking times so this is starting to sound like just another one of your random moments of coming after one of my comments out of boredom or something.

Maybe we have to explain to the powers that be why we want to maintain our spaces- we damn sure don’t owe trans people or their allies any explanations.

I have provided reasoning several times. So unless you think any time a man demands something from women women have to explain why he’s not entitled to it, you’re kind of just typing out of your ass.

[–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

sex based spaces already exist. They have to justify undoing that. We don’t have to justify maintaining it.

So your only argument is a fallacy of an appeal to tradition/popularity/status quo. Lovely.

We have listed the reasons why so many fucking times

If you don't like having to prove your point, feel free to leave the debate sub or any sort of debate in general. Intellectual laziness doesn't make "cuz I say so" a valid argument.

Your entire argument is that you "don't have to explain anything", because you're apparently some special majesty who's so important you should just decide how the universe works and everyone should nod.

this is starting to sound like just another one of your random moments of coming after one of my comments out of boredom or something.

lmao there are like 5 people commenting on the regular here. You're not some victim of stalking if you regularly say dumb shit that I call out. Seriously, get over yourself. I don't care who you are, I don't care what your life story is, I don't care if you think I'm being rude, I only care that someone's saying stupid shit that is wrong and deserves to be corrected and called out. It's that simple. If you can't handle being challenged or heaven forbid having to rationalise whatever comes out of your mouth, then don't join a debate sub.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Lmao Every single post here gc lists all of the many many reasons that sex based spaces should remain so, so tou pretending that everyone who participates here doesn’t know my arguments by now is ridiculous. I have on several occasions explained why I think women should maintain sex based spaces. You’d look like a fool to deny that.

I absolutely do not have to explain to trans people, men in general, or You why I think sex based spaces are important. Who the fuck are you, or a trans person or any random dude, to demand that? I don’t owe any civilian an explanation. The explanation is that it’s a sex based space. That’s why. That’s the whole reason. It’s not discrimination to tell a man to stay out and you know that so yes, this is just you doing that weird thing you sometimes do and it’s fucking wack, you never have anything to add when you do this (your comments when you aren’t doing this are often brilliant, which makes this ten times weirder lol). Im not saying you only do this to me, I’ve seen you do it to others as well. It’s always odd and useless. I don’t think you’re being rude or a bully. I think you just make yourself look like an ass.

Im bored with you. Bye. Have a good one.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[removed]

    [–]BiologyIsReal[M] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    What part of "enough with this conversation" you didn't understand? Drop this subject already.

    [–]BiologyIsReal[M] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    That is enough with this conversation. We all know why sex-segreggates spaces are necessary. There is no need to misconstruct what u/loveSloane said just because she didn't state the reasons for them for the millionth time.

    Also, just because this is a debate sub, it doesn't mean you don't get to follow the rules. So, quit all the personal attacks already and just say your arguments.

    [–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    We all know why sex-segreggates spaces are necessary

    Except no, a lot of people don't know why sex-segregated spaces are necessary, hence why they are constantly being debated in the first place.

    There is no need to misconstruct what u/loveSloane said just because she didn't state the reasons for them for the millionth time.

    No one asked her to? Her argument was that women don't have to explain anything because we have appeals to tradition/status quo/majority opinion etc. Her argument was NOT "Women have already argued their need for sexed spaces and I don't feel like going through them again".

    just say your arguments.

    Uhh, I already did? My argument was that "Because I say so" or an appeal to tradition are not arguments. Empty statements and fallacies cannot be used to justify anything, least of all widespread social policies.

    When someone claims they're being victimised because, gasp, a person had the gall to take issue with their wrong comments multiple times on a debate sub of all places, and one with like five people on it, and this is some kind of personal crusade against their feelings specifically...Then uuh, yeah, I'm gonna call that out. It's not bad to be wrong, it IS bad to act like being wrong means you're a victim of a witchhunt.

    [–]BiologyIsReal[M] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    My warning was not only about this particular conversation. It was about you calling other users names in general and acting like you're the only one here who is not a dumbass. It's about your habit of nitpicking something a GC user said that you find clumsy, and interpret it in the worst way possible, acusse them of being misogynist, or compare them with white supremacist or whatever else in order to... I don't know... prove you're the better feminist or the most morally correct person or the most clever? It was about how when other call your behaviour out you act like it's them who cannot hold a debate.

    I know you are quite capable of writing very articulate arguments if you want. And I know that because of the topics we discuss here, arguments are bound to get heated, but there is no need to act as agressive all time. So so try to discuss things in a civil maner as much as possible.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I didn't read any personal attacks on your part. And I'll answer your question.

    If there is a black-only group on campus, say, isn't that the "exact same line [of] reasoning and arguments ... used equally to support things like white supremacy"? Why should people ever be segregated on the basis of skin color? Isn't that racism towards white students?

    If your answer is no, I think you understand why we are entitled to female-only spaces.

    [–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    If there is a black-only group on campus, say, isn't that the "exact same line [of] reasoning and arguments ... used equally to support things like white supremacy"? Why should people ever be segregated on the basis of skin color? Isn't that racism towards white students?

    No, because the reason why a black-only group exists in the first place is due to racism in society rendering them necessary. The reason isn't "Because races shouldn't mingle". The reason isn't "Because black people are fundamentally different they can't function in regular mixed-race groups". The reason isn't "Because I say so". It's because of white supremacy. And this is also why white people can't form white-only groups. Because the reasons for these things are fundamentally different. It's really not hard to understand ffs.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's really not hard to understand ffs.

    Yet somehow you missed it. Women have a right to women-only spaces because we live in a male supremacist society. And that isn't "female supremacy" because it doesn't exist any more than "reverse racism."

    Though when it comes to sports there is also a fundamental difference that isn't made up like race.