For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom?

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[–]inkling 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (57 children)

No I am not, I'm saying that the majority perceived it that way.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (55 children)

Sure people were really out there freaking out over the dangers ramps and pedestrian lights that make sounds we’re gonna have on all the people who can walk and see. 🙄

[–]inkling 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (54 children)

Some people believed that disability accomodations weren't necessary because the current system benefitted the maximum number of people. I don't know why you think that people had to be afraid of disability accomodations in order for it to be comparable as that wasn't why I was comparing the two in the first place.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (53 children)

Because the issue is about safety, or rather fears for safety. It’s got nothing to do with some supposed moral issue.

Besides, absolutely nothing for transgender people benefits a majority. It’s absurd to compare the wants of a small group to the actual needs of people with disabilities.

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

absolutely nothing for transgender people benefits a majority. It’s absurd to compare the wants of a small group to the actual needs of people with disabilities

This is a flawed argument. It's not about what benefits a majority, it is about whether someone's demands are necessary and whether they infringe on other people's rights. Minorities should not have to prove that their rights benefit the majority in order for people to give a shit about accommodating them, but they also cannot make demands that will violate other people's rights and safety. i.e. gay people, despite being a minority, can make demands for equality, pedophiles cannot. And if gay people started demanding they be let into female spaces freely because straight men bully them, or demanded that biology be rewritten to claim that two men can reproduce in order to make gay people feel more "normal", that would be a different story.

[–]inkling 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (51 children)

The original comment that I replied to implied that whats good for the majority is always the best system which is the main thing I was responding to. Someone else asked if I thought racial segregation and systems that cater to able bodied people kept the most amount of people safe and I said some people perceive it that way. You interpretted that to mean that I thought that people were afraid of disability accomodations which is not what I meant by some people believe that systems that cater to able bodied people keep the most amount of people safe so anything else isn't necessary if most people are safe anyway. That doesn't mean I think that people were afraid of disability accomodations, only that I think people thought they were unnecessary. Understand?

Besides, absolutely nothing for transgender people benefits a majority.

I didn't say it did? I said the opposite.

(My comment doesn't make any sense now that you've edited yours so I'm pasting your original comment for context)

Because you said it was about safety, or rather fears for safety. Besides, absolutely nothing for transgender people benefits a majority. It’s absurd to compare the wants of a small group to the actual needs of people with disabilities.

I disagree morality has nothing to do with it, if accomodating someone's gender has no proven risk and not accomodating their gender has a proven risk. Thats clearly a morality issue to me.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

You need to prove there’s no risk which is a tall order considering tw have already harmed women in women’s spaces.

What’s good for the majority works perfectly fine in sexed spaces. The morally correct option would not be taking those away, it would be to provide an extra space for trans people without disrupting women’s safety.

Threats of suicide are not much defense when stacked up against rapists. Suicide can be prevented by putting the person in appropriate psychiatric care. This is a more appropriate response than giving them the thing they threaten suicide over. The emotional manipulation of suicide threats to control others behaviour is an utter moral failure so not sure how there’s moral superiority in caving to manipulative men.

Women cannot be as protected from men without our spaces. Taking that away is not moral, even when manipulators try to say it is.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

Threats of suicide are not much defense when stacked up against rapists. Suicide can be prevented by putting the person in appropriate psychiatric care. This is a more appropriate response than giving them the thing they threaten suicide over.

Yes. This. All of this.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

Idk how the rest of the world doesn’t seem to get it. Suicidal people go to the hospital. There is no other reasonable response to suicide threats over anything else, why the hell would suicide threats over preferred bathroom usage be an exception?

It’s like they think if someone says they will kill them selves if they aren’t given an iPhone, the best thing to do is to drive them to the electronics store, because the lack of phone is the issue somehow.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m honestly very curious about how many trans people would keep threatening suicide if they got hospitalized instead of placated every time.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Probably the same amount of cluster-b personalities that do. Handful of really dedicated ones will but the rest find a new threat that gives them the control over others, and that’s all they really want.

[–]inkling 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

It’s like they think if someone says they will kill them selves if they aren’t given an iPhone

The fact that you think this is comparable shows a disturbing lack of empathy...

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No it shows I’m aware of emotional manipulation and don’t fall for it

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

What trans people are doing is actually significantly worse.

They are threatening suicide if other people’s rights, comfort and privacy are respected and maintained, because they can’t or don’t want to accept the truth of their sex.

The fact that you don’t understand that is what’s disturbing. The fact that they are getting away with this is what’s disturbing.

Where is the empathy in trans people for the people who’s rights they are undoing?

Where was the empathy from the dude at wii spa when he was swinging his dick in front of women and at least two young girls even though he had access to a safe unisex space?

Where’s the empathy from Karen white when he was raping other inmates?

Where was the empathy from Dana Rivers when he murdered two women and their son?

Where was the empathy for the many many women seeking help and safety when that rape shelter in Canada was shut down for acknowledging that women who had just been raped may want a space free of males while they seek help?

Where is the empathy when rape and murder threats are sent to women just for disagreeing with your ideology?

Where’s the empathy from Jessica Yaniv when he wanted women to wax his balls for validation even though the business I’m question only waxed females?

Where is the empathy when trans women waste gynecologist’s time with check ups for their male genitals when it’s already not always easy to even get those appointments when you have the required equipment?

Or is it only trans people who deserve empathy?

Do you genuinely not get that other people matter? It really seems that way.

[–]inkling 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/no-link-between-trans-inclusive-policies-bathroom-safety-study-finds-n911106

http://jaapl.org/content/46/2/232#sec-8

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-youth-arrested-for-raping-4-year-old-girl-distributing-videos-photos-of-the-act-jakob-dakota-nieves/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-sexual-offending-context-is-all/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/man-wearing-a-dress-and-wig-jailed-for-masturbating-in-three-different-stores/

How many articles of proof that the statement ‘transwomen are not a threat’ is false would you like? I can link you to this all night.

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-convicted-of-sexually-abusing-a-10-year-old-girl-miguel-michelle-martinez/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-teacher-now-transgender-demands-access-to-washroom-for-elementary-school-girls/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/man-dressed-like-a-woman-repeatedly-recorded-women-in-mixed-sex-restrooms-richard-rodriguez/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-arrested-for-spitting-attack-following-complaint-about-his-presence-in-female-restroom/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-activists-protest-law-banning-flashing-of-genitalia-in-restrooms-locker-rooms-change-rooms/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-admits-restroom-sexual-attack-voyeurism-against-adolescent-girls-katie-dolatowski/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/university-of-toronto-gender-neutral-restrooms-partially-reversed-after-female-students-recorded-in-shower/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-person-accused-of-sexually-assaulting-teen-in-walmart-restroom-alicia-gray-nee-sean-ojeda/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/man-transsexual-arrested-for-assault-on-pregnant-woman-in-restroom/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-teacher-confesses-to-wearing-wig-cross-dressing-to-film-women-in-restrooms/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-transgender-boasts-of-harassing-women-in-crisis-shelter/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/politician-who-advocated-mixed-sex-restrooms-changing-rooms-accused-of-sexual-activity-with-a-child-david-smith/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/repeat-sexual-offender-arrested-for-dressing-like-woman-to-sneak-into-school-geoffrey-kelley/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-equality-officer-attacks-teen-girl/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/womens-refuge-allows-male-transgender-who-threatened-to-kill-his-female-partner/

Really inkling, I’d love to know how these women weren’t harmed by the men on the article here.

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-trans-pedophilia-rape-history-sexually-attacks-women-at-homeless-shelter-christopher-hambrook/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-proponent-of-mixed-sex-showers-locker-rooms-raped-deaf-woman-johanna-wolf/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-shauna-sean-smith-target-store-voyeur-records-video-of-teen-girl-undressing/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-rights-activist-chad-sevearance-turner-has-history-of-sexually-abusing-children/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-cross-dresser-records-women-in-restrooms-jason-pomare/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/women-in-shelter-forced-to-shower-with-man-who-identifies-as-transgender/

How are we the ones lacking morals again?

[–]inkling 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Do you have any studies that review the evidence? I mean I'll look at these links but they seem to all be from the same website which clearly has an agenda. I was hoping for something more substantial.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Those are all media links about real life cases. If you actually looked you’d see the sources are included in the articles.

Please answer the questions throughout.

[–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except...they didn't? These things were not put in place for the safety of the majority, and they certainly weren't put in place because the vulnerable groups asked for said protections. Sooo...what's the point of lying that this was "perceived" in a way it wasn't? Except because you know your entire argument is bullshit?

Let me spell this out to you, and I'll try to make it simple enough that even a trans rights activist will be able to understand it: Women have been preyed on and endangered by men for all of history, to the point of their freedoms, safety and privacy being severely violated this fact. That is why they needed and demanded protections in the form of female spaces, so they could function normally in the public sphere. This was not the case for racial segregation that was imposed onto black people against their will and due to ideas of white supremacy, nor for the lack of disabled spaces resulting from neglect and lack of visibility of disabled people's needs.

Now, using your ass-backwards logic, you could argue that having to have disabled parking spaces and ramps is no different from stoning a woman for being a witch, since both laws are in place because "the majority perceives it that way". Gosh, it's almost like there's more to this whole thing than just "what the majority says".