For people who think bathrooms should be segregated by birth sex, are passing trans men entitled to use the women's bathroom?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

If she passes, the likelihood of her using the women’s room drastically decreases, but if she did- she’s female. Regardless of how she appears or how anyone feels, no one has a right to tell her she can’t use female spaces.

She may get harassed, but seeing as how most women won’t harass someone they think is a male, at most I think other women may double take-maybe even stare-and stay away, and maybe say something to a manager/owner or another person they are with after they aren’t in the presence of the person they mistook to be a man

If it turns into an issue, a simple “I’m trans” would likely clear things up.

There’s never going to be a foolproof system that can’t be abused/manipulated. There will be trans people who pass and use the wrong bathroom, there will even be people who aren’t trans who are mistaken for the opposite sex- that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any type of system in place or that whatever system is in place should prioritize trans people to the detriment of everyone else.

Side note- Of course I’m sure you could bust out some example(s) of women being harassed because other women (or even actual men) mistook them for a man, but that’s not a wise door to open because we can show some things that TW have done in female spaces that are “unsavory” to say the least, and if the response is “most TW don’t act like that/that never rarely happens”, keep that same energy.

[–]inkling 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

You say women won't harrass someone and then give many examples of people who WILL harrass TM in female bathrooms. Owners, managers, some women, other men. So how is that okay?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Re Owners, managers, other people: asking someone you think is a male what they were doing in the women’s room is not harassment if it directly affects you or your establishment, even if it is upsetting or makes someone uncomfortable. It can be done discreetly, it can be done respectfully, and the people I listed would be rather inclined to go about bringing up the subject in a discreet and polite manner. Most people don’t jump to harass others. Particularly not business owners, managers, or women.

Im not saying that harassment doesn’t or can’t happen, I’m saying the idea that radfems and conservatives will jump to harass anyone- or that people in general jump to harass someone else- is ridiculous. The people who will harass them are not doing it because they are conservative or because they are radfems. Some of them may be either of those things, but violent people exist on all political parties and in all ideologies. They aren’t violent because they are conservative or radfem.

And any transman who passes and uses the women’s room for some reason would likely expect reactions. I doubt they’d be surprised if a manager, owner, or anyone else approached them and asked about it. They know they look male. They know they went into a female space. I’m gonna give them the benefit of the doubt I gave you, and assume they can put two and two together if an issue arises.

All of this to say- the issue can be resolved without resorting to harassment.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I didn’t give any actual examples so what are you talking about?

I said I’m sure you could possibly find some example out there. There are some crazy ass people in the world, you can find just about anything. But that it doesn’t mean that the “craziness” you may find if you dig for it is typical. I’m saying if when transwomen do weird or even violent shit in female spaces we are expected to accept that that’s not indicative of how TW behave generally, so extend that same energy if you do see some random incident were someone who is female has her sex questioned.

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I was accepting the idea that what you were posting about could happen. And you still ignored everything I said that actually mattered lol

The real answer is if they actually look like a man, they don’t bother with the women’s room. So if they’re in the women’s room, we know they’re a transman (or at least that they are clearly female) not a man by looking at them.

Edit- fixed typo

[–]inkling 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Uh you wrote me two comments, one claiming you didn't give any examples and the other addressing your examples, so I'm not sure whats going on here

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I didn’t give you examples of anyone who would harass someone. I gave you examples of people a woman may turn to if she is concerned because she saw someone she assumed to be a man in a female space. There’s a clear difference. I realized you didn’t comprehend that difference, so I made a second comment to clarify.

[–]inkling 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I guess we have different life experiences then.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So you don’t actually want to debate and you’re ending the convo? Because Idk what to even say something that vague.

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I swear to god you could write a trans-activist bot and I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

…okay lol

Glad you got that off your chest, just not sure what the point was

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm saying how often these discussions with trans-rights-activists all go the same way. They say something, GC explains why it's wrong, TRA either disappears, repeats that transwomen are women or says that they "feel" differently or that that's just their opinion with no further explanation.

[–]inkling 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I thought you were pretty needlessly rude in your response so decided not to engage further in that moment, yes.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Where was I rude? Lol