GC: What are "sex-based" rights?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Biology can absolutely result in discrimination, but that is not always the case. A trans man who passes as male, for instance, will not be catcalled on the streets, and will have his ideas taken seriously. A trams woman who passes as female will experience the same catcalling cis women experience and may be offered a lower salary than her male colleagues applying for the same position. If you read articles from actual trans people, they will tell you how they were treated differently when presenting as men vs women, or even presenting as androgynous.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People mistaking someone's sex doesn't mean said discrimination isn't based on sex. And you don't need to adopt an "trans identity" in order to be perceived differently in certain circunstances. For example, many women had published books under a male sounding pseudonym or just using their initial so as potential readers don't immediately dismiss their works upon seeing a female name.

By the way, I find funny that you use catcalling as an example because there are actually many trans identified males (you know, the kind who identify as "women") who would find catcalling a "validating" and desirable experience. Are you going to tell me you never heard any of them fetishizing humillianting experiences like catcalling? Don't you hate-read Ovarit? Have you ever lurked through the "it's a fetish" section?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

So by your logic women can easily escape sexism by presenting themselves differently and endure sexism for the sake of “presenting as women”

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Yes. That does not mean we shouldn't change our sexist systems and that doesn't mean women should be told to just transition to men to escape sexism.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Yet you are here spouting ideology that says exactly this. You are making statements here regularly that contradict this.

It is not possible as far as I’m concerned for any reasonably intelligent adult to argue that a little girl could just cut her hair and call herself a boy to avoid fgm so you are absolutely just trolling. Even with the silly little caveat of ‘but they shouldn’t of course :)”

You cannot possibly not see how this implies that it’s a choice to “present” as a girl and a choice to be mutilated due to “identifying as a girl” Funny how you respond to this and none of my other comments pointing out how you argue for sexist shit. Still refusing to answer any questions too.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It is not possible as far as I’m concerned for any reasonably intelligent adult to argue that a little girl could just cut her hair and call herself a boy to avoid fgm so you are absolutely just trolling. Even with the silly little caveat of ‘but they shouldn’t of course :)”

That is not what I said at all.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

HP:

So by your logic women can easily escape sexism by presenting themselves differently and endure sexism for the sake of “presenting as women”

YOU:

“Yes”

ALSO YOU:

“That is not what I said at all”

ME:

laughter

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I said passing trans men are mostly treated like men by society, while passing trans women are treated like women. Your side admits this themselves.

Do you think the treatment of natal women and passing trans men are the same, even though the trans men are being perceived as male?

However the way you phrase it makes it sound like I'm suggesting girls should just take T if they don't want to experience sexism. That's not what I'm saying at all and we should still continue to fight for equality.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Honey-

Everyone here can read. We saw what was said. You can’t gaslight us or try to pretend you didn’t say what you said. All you can do is deflect, ignore or maybe try to edit your comments or something lol

You were asked if women can escape sexism by presenting differently, and if not doing so is choosing to endure sexism to present as a woman.

You said yes.

Your caveat about how they shouldn’t have to is irrelevant. You weren’t asked if they should or shouldn’t have to, you were asked if it was possible, and if not doing so meant they chose to endure sexism, because as it stands, the “shouldn’t have to” doesn’t matter because the circumstances under which we wouldn’t have to don’t exist.

So maybe your intent wasn’t to say that women choose to experience sexism by not transitioning, but that’s what you were asked and you answered honestly before you understood the full implication of the question. That doesn’t mean that your answer wasn’t yes, it just means you tripped over your ideology lol

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Love how gb thinks they aren’t responsible for saying heinous shit just because she can’t or won’t analyse anything.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I did say passing trans man for the most part are not treated as female by society. I did not say that cis women who do not transition are "choosing" to endure sexism and I'm not blaming women for experiencing sexism. Perhaps I misunderstood the question.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lmao okay sure thing.

Your caveat shows that you understood what was being asked. Why would you basically say "yes, but" if you didn’t understand what she was asking you?

Just because you don’t understand that answering "yes" to HP’s question means that you’re holding females responsible for the sexism we experience, doesn’t mean that your answer doesn’t reveal to everyone reading this that that’s what exactly what you’ve done.

No, technically you didn’t say it, but you were asked it and you said yes. And doubled down on it a few times before now trying to say you misunderstood.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Except girls ARE literally taking testosterone to flight from sexism. The number of teen girls deciding they are now boys have growing exponentially during the last years. And now you have to add the "non binary identities", which have a lower thereshold to decide they are no longer girls.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

First, the number of transgender people overall has increased during the last decade. Second, we live in a sexist society right now, but it was worse in the 1990s. Women couldn't vote and were barred from most professions. Why weren't there as many transgender people back then. My guess personally is that being transgender has become more accepted and that's why more people are identifying as transgender. There is less stigma today being transgender than there was back then.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

now, but it was worse in the 1990s. Women couldn't vote and were barred from most professions.

Lol citation needed

Also, why pretend like the umbrella for what’s considered trans and the criteria for being diagnosed/considered trans hasn’t widened considerably. If anyone who says they identify a certain way is trans, in the days of groupthink and social media trends, it stands to reason their numbers would increase

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Second, we live in a sexist society right now, but it was worse in the 1990s. Women couldn't vote and were barred from most professions.

Uh, what?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s precisely what is implied by your arguments.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, do you admit identifying as a woman basically means choosing to endure sexism and misogyny? Because this is the reason of GC criticism of the concept of "cis". Yet you claim not to understand why we take offense on being called "cis".

[–]strictly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. That does not mean we shouldn't change our sexist systems and that doesn't mean women should be told to just transition to men to escape sexism.

So do you think biological females who transition have a trans privilege over biological females who don't transition then?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So do you think biological females who transition have a trans privilege over biological females who don't transition then?

Yes. They have privilege being perceived as male, not for being trans.