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[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

How do my views frighten you?

Coz you want to remove carefully-thought out safeguards that have been put in place for the protection and benefit of women and children and impose rules that will put women and children at risk.

Coz you want to make adherence to the tenets of genderology mandatory for the whole population by law and by custom.

Coz you say that people can escape their sex, and thus the consequences of being female, by simply changing "gender presentation" and adopting a "gender identity" that denies their sex.

Coz you keep repeating

I believe sex matters in terms of biological functions, for instance abortion rights and menstrual pad access. However I otherwise don't believe sex matters.

Like a broken record. You keep pretending that biological sex differences solely or mainly are about matters like abortion and menstruation. You don't seem aware that the phase of life when female humans menstruate and might need an abortion is less than half the average US women's lifespan nowadays - yet biological sex differences that are of profound importance to girls' and women's health and wellbeing both precede the "childbearing years" of the female life cycle and persist long after it.

Coz when I asked you how changing "gender presentation" would apply to, and ameliorate, the widespread practice of aborting human female fetuses simply because they are female, you responded by saying

Lol fetuses can't change their gender

Hundreds of millions of female fetuses aborted simply for being female and your response is to laugh.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

Coz you want to remove carefully-thought out safeguards that have been put in place for the protection and benefit of women and children and impose rules that will put women and children at risk.

I find the term "women and children" sexist because it implies women are in the same category as children or are more weaker somehow. If something is dangerous to women and children, it is dangerous to men and enbies too.

Coz you want to make adherence to the tenets of genderology mandatory for the whole population by law and by custom.

Coz you say that people can escape their sex, and thus the consequences of being female, by simply changing "gender presentation" and adopting a "gender identity" that denies their sex.

But most people support your side and I don't have any political power.

Coz you keep repeating

I believe sex matters in terms of biological functions, for instance abortion rights and menstrual pad access. However I otherwise don't believe sex matters.

Like a broken record. You keep pretending that biological sex differences solely or mainly are about matters like abortion and menstruation. You don't seem aware that the phase of life when female humans menstruate and might need an abortion is less than half the average US women's lifespan nowadays - yet biological sex differences that are of profound importance to girls' and women's health and wellbeing both precede the "childbearing years" of the female life cycle and persist long after it.

Coz when I asked you how changing "gender presentation" would help prevent or curb the widespread practice of aborting human female fetuses simply because they are female, you responded by saying

Lol fetuses can't change their gender

Hundreds of millions of female fetuses aborted simply for being female and your response is to laugh.

I laughed because you implied fetuses can change their gender which they can't. Yes female fetuses aborted for being female. No one is denying that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think the average woman is as strong as the average man?

If those foetuses are aborted because they are female, is this sex or gender? Are females being aborted due to their femaleness or not? Is female genital mutilation performed on girls because they are female or because they identify as girls?

If sex doesn’t matter, why are these girls being harmed on the basis of their sex? If the foetuses being aborted due to their sex, does sex really not matter still?

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I laughed because you implied fetuses can change their gender which they can't.

No, I did the precise opposite, FFS. The point I was making is that female fetuses cannot escape the consequences of their sex by changing their "gender presentation."

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

I laughed because you implied fetuses can change their gender which they can't. Yes female fetuses aborted for being female. No one is denying that.

Wait a minute... So, you do recognize a biology-based definition of female. And you do recognize that sex-based discrimination is a thing. Yet you keep understating the importance of sex and prioritizing "gender identity" because...? Really, why do you do this?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (20 children)

Biology can absolutely result in discrimination, but that is not always the case. A trans man who passes as male, for instance, will not be catcalled on the streets, and will have his ideas taken seriously. A trams woman who passes as female will experience the same catcalling cis women experience and may be offered a lower salary than her male colleagues applying for the same position. If you read articles from actual trans people, they will tell you how they were treated differently when presenting as men vs women, or even presenting as androgynous.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People mistaking someone's sex doesn't mean said discrimination isn't based on sex. And you don't need to adopt an "trans identity" in order to be perceived differently in certain circunstances. For example, many women had published books under a male sounding pseudonym or just using their initial so as potential readers don't immediately dismiss their works upon seeing a female name.

By the way, I find funny that you use catcalling as an example because there are actually many trans identified males (you know, the kind who identify as "women") who would find catcalling a "validating" and desirable experience. Are you going to tell me you never heard any of them fetishizing humillianting experiences like catcalling? Don't you hate-read Ovarit? Have you ever lurked through the "it's a fetish" section?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

So by your logic women can easily escape sexism by presenting themselves differently and endure sexism for the sake of “presenting as women”

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Yes. That does not mean we shouldn't change our sexist systems and that doesn't mean women should be told to just transition to men to escape sexism.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Yet you are here spouting ideology that says exactly this. You are making statements here regularly that contradict this.

It is not possible as far as I’m concerned for any reasonably intelligent adult to argue that a little girl could just cut her hair and call herself a boy to avoid fgm so you are absolutely just trolling. Even with the silly little caveat of ‘but they shouldn’t of course :)”

You cannot possibly not see how this implies that it’s a choice to “present” as a girl and a choice to be mutilated due to “identifying as a girl” Funny how you respond to this and none of my other comments pointing out how you argue for sexist shit. Still refusing to answer any questions too.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It is not possible as far as I’m concerned for any reasonably intelligent adult to argue that a little girl could just cut her hair and call herself a boy to avoid fgm so you are absolutely just trolling. Even with the silly little caveat of ‘but they shouldn’t of course :)”

That is not what I said at all.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

HP:

So by your logic women can easily escape sexism by presenting themselves differently and endure sexism for the sake of “presenting as women”

YOU:

“Yes”

ALSO YOU:

“That is not what I said at all”

ME:

laughter

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I said passing trans men are mostly treated like men by society, while passing trans women are treated like women. Your side admits this themselves.

Do you think the treatment of natal women and passing trans men are the same, even though the trans men are being perceived as male?

However the way you phrase it makes it sound like I'm suggesting girls should just take T if they don't want to experience sexism. That's not what I'm saying at all and we should still continue to fight for equality.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s precisely what is implied by your arguments.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So, do you admit identifying as a woman basically means choosing to endure sexism and misogyny? Because this is the reason of GC criticism of the concept of "cis". Yet you claim not to understand why we take offense on being called "cis".

[–]strictly 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. That does not mean we shouldn't change our sexist systems and that doesn't mean women should be told to just transition to men to escape sexism.

So do you think biological females who transition have a trans privilege over biological females who don't transition then?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So do you think biological females who transition have a trans privilege over biological females who don't transition then?

Yes. They have privilege being perceived as male, not for being trans.