Awards Shows

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

Do you think it’s fair for MJ Rodriguez to be nominated alongside female performers? Or for any male to be nominated in female categories/female in male categories?

It honestly doesn’t matter to me. They're more about deciding which studio gets more money anyway. It’s a farce.

Do you think trans actors should be able to play characters who aren’t trans (but are the opposite sex)?

Yes though they won’t let them.

Do you think actors who aren’t trans should be able to play trans characters?

No because they’ve proven time and again they can’t handle the responsibility and those are literally the only jobs trans actors can get.

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

Yes though they won’t let them.

I can think of two recent examples. There was a trans woman who played a natal woman in The Queen's Gambit. And Patti Harrison is a trans woman who just had a starring role as a natal woman in a movie called Together, Together.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

I haven’t seen those but is it explicit that they aren’t trans in both cases? Or is it merely that there Natal sex isn’t discussed so you assume?

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

The first show is set in the '60s and the actor plays, if I remember correctly, an educator in an orphanage: it is simply not possible that they were writing this character as trans, he was playing a woman. The same actor portrayed the owner of a saloon in the old west in The Sisters Brothers: I don' t remember much of that movie, so maybe I am mistaken, but I seem to remember that everyone was treating him as if he were female, not male identifying as female. I seriously doubt people would have treated a trans person like that in the old west.

The second actor plays a pregnant woman in that film.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (33 children)

it is simply not possible that they were writing this character as trans

If it’s not discussed it is possible. Lilly Elbe in the 30’s. Jorgensen in the 50’s. Unlikely certainly but not impossible. You assume the character isn’t trans.

The same actor portrayed the owner of a saloon in the old west in The Sisters Brothers: I don' t remember much of that movie, so maybe I am mistaken, but I seem to remember that everyone was treating him as if he were female, not male identifying as female.

And how does one treat a woman as opposed to a trans woman exactly?

[–]worried19 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

If it’s not discussed it is possible. Lilly Elbe in the 30’s. Jorgensen in the 50’s. Unlikely certainly but not impossible. You assume the character isn’t trans.

Circling, a non-passing transsexual would never have been hired in a job of that type back in the 1960s. It's simply not possible due to the extreme prejudice they faced at the time. This character worked with children. If a known homosexual would have been roundly dismissed from most jobs (but especially a job working with children), the response for a transsexual would have been equally as harsh if not harsher. They would never have gotten the job at all. Out of everyone here, I find it surprising you'd downplay the struggles such individuals faced.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

Fictional universes need not be as bad as real ones.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So fiction should only portray ideals and not anything realistic?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not only, but exclusively the other. Why must fiction be bound by prejudice when it isn’t the point of the story?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because the story is being told in a real world setting. It’s not a fantasy setting, it’s a story set in the actual world.

Idk how else to phrase it because it’s honestly pretty simple as a concept. Fiction can have enormous amounts of realism, and the existence of concepts in a story that aren’t nice are not actually an attack on the viewer.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Sure, but there's no evidence it was a fantasy world. Anyway, that's getting a little far afield. I think your original comment was that Hollywood won't give trans women those roles. It seems to be changing, which is a good thing. I don't mind trans women playing non-trans roles, or vice versa either. Acting is acting.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Okay. I disagree. I don’t really mind natal women playing trans women that much, though I would prefer a trans woman have the role given how few their are. However I will always strenuously object to men playing trans women.

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Have you seen bad portrayals? I keep meaning to watch The Danish Girl on Netflix, but I heard Eddie Redmayne did a good job in that role.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

If it’s not discussed it is possible. Lilly Elbe in the 30’s. Jorgensen in the 50’s. Unlikely certainly but not impossible. You assume the character isn’t trans.

I am not denying they existed, I am denying that they would have had the chance to have that particular job. Given how much you keep complaining that coming out as trans even now is a death sentence for your career, you should understand that in the '60s things were even worse. It' s simply not possible that in the '60s transexxuals, who at the time were considered pervert deviants (maybe even in the law, but definitelly on a social level), would have been put in a position of authority and caring towards children.

And how does one treat a woman as opposed to a trans woman exactly?

You think in the old west people would have referred to a male as she and madam? And I mean for real, not with the intent of mocking him? If the character had been trans, NOBODY would have respected his preferred pronouns and identity in that period or setting. The character is referred to as a woman and she because the actor is playing a female.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I feel like there were probably some stealth transwomen by the 60s and I know there were stealth transmen going back way before that. Because of stealth, we could exist in times where there was massive hostility towards us without it ruining our lives. I don’t think it’s good casting though unless that is the story that they are trying to tell. I feel like trans people for me sort of take me out of the story unless it is about that because I notice and I can’t unnoticed it, if that makes sense lol.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How stealth could they be in the '60s? Were they even allowed to change sex markers on IDs? Not to mention, was it even possible to keep it a secret from your employer? And in the Old West?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like legal sex change has probably existed in one way or another forever. Before there was really a process, you could get just a judge to issue a court order to take to vital records. Even if that wasn’t possible, getting passable documents was probably much easier too or using something someone made to obtain legal documents. Employment would have been massively easier even if you couldn’t do a legal sex change because everything was so much less connected. You didn’t even need to complete an I9. I was really talking more about the 60s than the old west, although I feel like passing transmen probably existed then and possibly transwomen too, although not ones who would pass by modern standards.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

You are putting the prejudices of the real world into a fictional one and more importantly your distaste and prejudice against trans people shows through in this attitude.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The fictional world described in both those project was made as realistic as possible. They weren' t done even in "A Knight' s Tale" style, the goal was to tell a story that described fictional events but in the most realistic way possible.

But sure go for it, old west towns had trans people in power of saloons and cowboys and delinquents all respected gender identity and pronouns, and in the '60s the USA were so open minded that, despite Stonewall not happening yet, trans women were put in charge of the education of children, nobody considered them perverts and wine spilled from fountains.

Living in a fantasy must be amazing, Mask.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Surely you realize that more often than not, the fictional world reflects the real one. Particularly when it comes to period pieces.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It doesn’t have to. You don’t have to inject prejudice that isn’t explicit

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

It’s not injecting prejudice- it’s acknowledging how things actually were while telling a story set in a previous time.

That’s the whole point of period pieces lol

It’s like you think they shouldn’t have sunk the titanic in the movie because just because that’s what actually happened doesn’t mean we have to deal with it.

Maybe media set in the 50’s/60’s shouldn’t show racial segregation? Was kinda a huge deal back then, but it’s so unpleasant to acknowledge.