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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It’s not a threat it’s a reality. Dysphoria is a crushing and miserable life. Not being able to have treatment when you live in constant misery makes people Jill themselves. It’s not a stunt, it’s a pain response. It’s not “abuser tactics” or “threats”. If you are hopeless and can’t get treatment for being miserable there’s a good chance you kill yourself. That’s not unique to trans people.

Just because it’s a mental health issue doesn’t mean it isn’t medical in treatment. Antidepressants address a mental health issue. It’s still necessary medical treatment.

Destroying a perfectly healthy body to make it vaguely resemble the opposite sex is not a social good. It's not an individual good either. I prioritize making unhealthy bodies whole over destroying perfectly healthy natural bodies with my tax dollars.

My body isn’t destroyed. It’s better. I got to shed the mascot suit I was forced to wear and feel like a person. And in doing so I’m healthier than I ever was. Because sleep and good nutrition and personal care come a hell of a lot easier when you don’t want to die. You act like a body is destroyed if it’s genitalia fail. It’s not destroyed, it ain’t even broken.

It’s not a threat. Without treatment many trans people hit a wall where they need to transition or just stop the pain. I was there and I’m not the only one. I literally was going to kill myself if I couldn’t find a way to transition. I didn’t communicate it to anyone. But it was get on estrogen or Jill myself. That’s not a threat. It’s the reaction or someone in pain who may be told there will never be relief.

Universal healthcare isn’t being caught up by trans people it’s being held up by the health insurance lobby. Even you can’t have enough of a tinfoil hat to blame us for that level or corporate greedy

I've gone without any healthcare for years, because I cannot afford it, so I have a really hard time feeling any sympathy whatsoever for people who threaten to commit suicide if they don't get wrong sex hormones that will wreck their body. You know what's more important than that? The millions of women suffering from excruciating pain every single goddamn month. I can't even understand what people are saying to me level of pain. I can't identify out of that pain. (And yes the pain often gets so bad that I do feel suicidal, sometimes just ending it seems worth it so I don't have to go through one more second of the pain.) I'll just have to suffer through it until I hit menopause and I'll likely never be able to afford to treat it, but go on keep on moaning about how you can't accept your body the way it is and how having a body you don't like is such a tragedy.

That’s terrible. You should be able to get treatment. But so should we. Single payer needs to happen but it’s not trans people stopping it. I’m not even saying everything needs to be covered but hormones and bottom surgery are at least undeniably medical and need to be covered.

You know that there are people with genetic disorders who suffer excruciating pain 360 days out of the year who cannot afford treatment right?

Also terrible. Also should have treatment. Also not exclusive to trans people getting treatment. Trans people represent a tiny fraction of the population. And many of us don’t want bottom surgery. Without the cost deflation that comes with single payer mine ran about 40000 before insurance. A one time expenditure that ultimately improved my physical health in a way that probably paid for itself in lack of need tor future treatments. This isn’t some crushing number and again only a tiny fraction of the population is applying it and it would defer other health costs. Or hell orchiectomy serves the hormonal purpose and is 10 percent the cost and the with no GA risk. Why not cover that?

If you have a healthy functioning body that works be grateful. A lot of us aren't that lucky. If the severely disabled can accept their bodies and make the best out of a shitty situation why can't you? Why should we accept you if you can't even accept yourself? Society can't make you love yourself, only you can do that.

Therapy doesn’t treat dysphoria effectively. That’s why transition exists at all. If conversion therapy worked on us society would never allow us to be a ourselves. I fixed my body. I accept my body now. It’s as good as I can make it. That’s the difference. A chronically disabled person may use a mobility aid or pain control or whatever else. And if they have a medically correctable condition they may need to correct it for quality of life. That’s what transition is. You can’t fathom how horrific it is to feel so disgusting and monstrous and every second of every day. To not be able to look in a mirror or shower in the light out or sheer gut wrenching disgust and wrongness. It’s constant unending psychic torture. If some cheap pills and a quick snip can give someone a life worth living why is that bad? Why is someone finding peace and ending their pain an affront to you? This is us”making the best of a shitty situation”.

Trans people need mental healthcare more than anything and they need to learn to accept themselves as they are. Having a healthy body is important, wrecking it chasing after a pipe dream is ill advised.

Our bodies aren’t wrecked. They’re fixed.

Affirmative surgeries & hormones' is today's lobotomy. We'll look back at this point in history with shame.

Lobotomies were for compliance not subjective improvement. Transition literally makes people better mentally. Comparing the two is offensive to those who whiny through both.

Transition isn’t demise. We are truly alive for the first time once we transition. Transition is an unfortunate necessity because society will never really accept us, but it’s a positive outcome. I am better. We are better. We aren’t dead or broken.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Giving anorexics free liposuctions is wrong. Cutting off the limb/s of people with Body Integrity Identity Disorder is wrong. Damaging healthy bodies of people with sex dysphoria is also wrong.

Crazy idea, but how about we treat people with mental health problems with mental health treatment. Not cater to their current inability to accept reality.

You may very well be one of those people in these 20 year studies who has to face up to the devastating long term consequences of physically transitioning and I don't wish that on anyone. In many of the studies people were initially happy but years down the line the dysphoria wasn't actually cured and they had to deal with the dysphoria and a body that was wrecked by unnecessary hormones and surgery. Surgeries are a big fucking deal and they should not ever be done casually. A person can easily end up suffering from chronic pain & disability for the rest of their life, because of them. Hormones are also a big deal and can have horrible even lethal health consequences in the long run. There are a lot of unknowns and every transgender person who uses wrong sex hormones is effectively a guinea pig participating in a long term unethical medical experiment. Unnecessary surgeries and hormones should absolutely be hard to get. There should be gatekeeping involved.

This isn't coming from a position of hate. It's coming from a serious consideration of medical ethics and how people with mental health issues ought to be treated and cared for by society. Sometimes the kindest most ethical thing society and individuals can do for a person with a mental health issue is to say no. No I will not help you cut your own arm off. No I will not help you starve yourself to death. No I will not help you get wrong sex hormones and unnecessary surgeries that will destroy and/or remove perfectly healthy body parts.

These articles cite legitimate sources about how transition is not the best treatment and often does more harm than good without solving the underlying issue, because body dysmorphia is a mental health problem not a physical health problem. A perfectly healthy male or female body is not a problem, refusal to accept that reality is. Trans people should get evidence based health care, not ideological wishful thinking healthcare.

Transition as Treatment: The Best Studies Show the Worst Outcomes

Transgenderism: A Pathogenic Meme "The idea that one’s sex is a feeling, not a fact, has permeated our culture and is leaving casualties in its wake. Gender dysphoria should be treated with psychotherapy, not surgery."

Correction: Transgender Surgery Provides No Mental Health Benefit "The American Journal of Psychiatry has issued a major correction to a recent study. The Bränström study reanalysis demonstrated that neither “gender-affirming hormone treatment” nor “gender-affirming surgery” reduced the need of transgender-identifying people for mental health services. Fad medicine is bad medicine, and gender-anxious people deserve better."

Insuring Rights for “Wrong” Bodies

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden "Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."

Correction to Bränström and Pachankis "the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care"

“Transitioning” Procedures Don’t Help Mental Health, Largest Dataset Shows

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You can’t cure dysphoria with normal mental health care. It doesn’t work. If it did they wouldn’t let us transition. Much of society would prefer there be no such thing as trans women.

Hormone therapy has been going for near 80 years. It’s not experimental or unethical. I’m not against some measure of reasonable psychiatric gatekeeping but for the people that need it, transition is the one and only effective treatment.

Transition isn’t destruction. It’s fixing a broken person. The alternative is unending unendurable suffering. That’s what you are arguing for, unchecked suffering.

Transition is the one thing that works. You are arguing for snake oil for the suffering when real effective treatments exist.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Much of society would prefer there be no such thing as trans women.

I don't think so. Society finds it much easier to understand a man who rejects masculinity because he feels he's a woman than a man who rejects it because...well, just because.

You are arguing for snake oil for the suffering when real effective treatments exist.

Alternatives should be looked into when said "treatment" involves healthy body part amputations, plastic surgeries and a lifetime taking hormones not meant for your body, either repressing or destroying your body's normal healthy hormonal production.