All: If you were put in charge of deciding policies surrounding sex/gender identity in your state/province/country/whatever, what would you implement?

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Who should be first in line for public funding: a diabetic who needs insulin shots to not literally fucking die or someone who has mental health issues who 'needs' cosmetic surgeries? How is it not a slap in the face to those people for a man who claims to be a women to get public funding for his fake breasts for free, but if they miss a paycheck and can't get money in time they will literally die?

Both. Insulin should be free or extremely cheap because it’s necessary and actually not expensive to produce. But of course that is getting into a larger flaws of the health system discussion.

Will they die? Probably not without ffs or a breast enhancement but without hormones? Yes in many cases. I personally was at the point of Jill myself or give up and transition. It’s that bad.

Trans affirming care isn’t cosmetic. It’s therapeutic. It’s not unimportant or unnnecessary just because you don’t like it. At least hormones and bottom surgery are undeniably therapeutic.

They should both be paid for.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

Give me what I demand or I'll commit suicide is unacceptable. You won't die without wrong sex hormones. Anyone who chooses to commit suicide that is 100% on them. Society isn't obligated to cave in to classic abuser manipulative tactics and this is coming from someone who spent many years feeling suicidal. You know what I never did, because I'm not an entitled manipulative abusive asshole? I never once threatened to commit suicide if I didn't get my way. I kept it to myself and dealt with my own shit. My problems were mine to solve, at no point was I so entitled to think that society at large was obligated to cater to me. (This is a telling difference between male and female socialization. Women are much more likely to internalize their problems and men tend to externalize their problems.)

If someone is in an abusive relationship are they obligated to stay in said relationship if the abuser tells them that they'll commit suicide if they leave? If a 100 million men threaten to kill themselves if we don't allow them to rape women should we cave in and give them what they want? If a trans person says they'll commit suicide if society doesn't pay for their 'affirmative' cosmetic surgeries and wrong sex hormone treatments that will more often than not turn them into a lifelong medical patient and a burden on society until the day they die am I obligated to prioritize them above people with lethal diseases and real physical disabilities? Not being able to accept your perfectly healthy body the way it is, is a mental health issue not a physical issue.

Destroying a perfectly healthy body to make it vaguely resemble the opposite sex is not a social good. It's not an individual good either. I prioritize making unhealthy bodies whole over destroying perfectly healthy natural bodies with my tax dollars.

Public funds are limited. People are literally dying (not abusively threatening suicide actually fucking dying) because they cannot afford even the most basic medical care. Poor kids are dying in the United States, because they cannot afford to go to the dentist.. Universal healthcare for all should not be sidelined by trans entitlement.

I've gone without any healthcare for years, because I cannot afford it, so I have a really hard time feeling any sympathy whatsoever for people who threaten to commit suicide if they don't get wrong sex hormones that will wreck their body. You know what's more important than that? The millions of women suffering from excruciating pain every single goddamn month. I can't even understand what people are saying to me level of pain. I can't identify out of that pain. (And yes the pain often gets so bad that I do feel suicidal, sometimes just ending it seems worth it so I don't have to go through one more second of the pain.) I'll just have to suffer through it until I hit menopause and I'll likely never be able to afford to treat it, but go on keep on moaning about how you can't accept your body the way it is and how having a body you don't like is such a tragedy.

You know that there are people with genetic disorders who suffer excruciating pain 360 days out of the year who cannot afford treatment right? If you have a healthy functioning body that works be grateful. A lot of us aren't that lucky. If the severely disabled can accept their bodies and make the best out of a shitty situation why can't you? Why should we accept you if you can't even accept yourself? Society can't make you love yourself, only you can do that.

Trans people need mental healthcare more than anything and they need to learn to accept themselves as they are. Having a healthy body is important, wrecking it chasing after a pipe dream is ill advised. 'Affirmative surgeries & hormones' is today's lobotomy. We'll look back at this point in history with shame. So many people will suffer the horrific potentially debilitating consequences of unnecessary surgeries and wrong sex hormones and there will be no going back for them, the damage is irreparable. It's a goddamn tragedy and absolutely no one should be encouraged to go that route. Trans people are hurting themselves and I for one am not willing to foot the bill for their self inflicted demise, especially when there are millions people who do have physical illnesses that desperately need care.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

It’s not a threat it’s a reality. Dysphoria is a crushing and miserable life. Not being able to have treatment when you live in constant misery makes people Jill themselves. It’s not a stunt, it’s a pain response. It’s not “abuser tactics” or “threats”. If you are hopeless and can’t get treatment for being miserable there’s a good chance you kill yourself. That’s not unique to trans people.

Just because it’s a mental health issue doesn’t mean it isn’t medical in treatment. Antidepressants address a mental health issue. It’s still necessary medical treatment.

Destroying a perfectly healthy body to make it vaguely resemble the opposite sex is not a social good. It's not an individual good either. I prioritize making unhealthy bodies whole over destroying perfectly healthy natural bodies with my tax dollars.

My body isn’t destroyed. It’s better. I got to shed the mascot suit I was forced to wear and feel like a person. And in doing so I’m healthier than I ever was. Because sleep and good nutrition and personal care come a hell of a lot easier when you don’t want to die. You act like a body is destroyed if it’s genitalia fail. It’s not destroyed, it ain’t even broken.

It’s not a threat. Without treatment many trans people hit a wall where they need to transition or just stop the pain. I was there and I’m not the only one. I literally was going to kill myself if I couldn’t find a way to transition. I didn’t communicate it to anyone. But it was get on estrogen or Jill myself. That’s not a threat. It’s the reaction or someone in pain who may be told there will never be relief.

Universal healthcare isn’t being caught up by trans people it’s being held up by the health insurance lobby. Even you can’t have enough of a tinfoil hat to blame us for that level or corporate greedy

I've gone without any healthcare for years, because I cannot afford it, so I have a really hard time feeling any sympathy whatsoever for people who threaten to commit suicide if they don't get wrong sex hormones that will wreck their body. You know what's more important than that? The millions of women suffering from excruciating pain every single goddamn month. I can't even understand what people are saying to me level of pain. I can't identify out of that pain. (And yes the pain often gets so bad that I do feel suicidal, sometimes just ending it seems worth it so I don't have to go through one more second of the pain.) I'll just have to suffer through it until I hit menopause and I'll likely never be able to afford to treat it, but go on keep on moaning about how you can't accept your body the way it is and how having a body you don't like is such a tragedy.

That’s terrible. You should be able to get treatment. But so should we. Single payer needs to happen but it’s not trans people stopping it. I’m not even saying everything needs to be covered but hormones and bottom surgery are at least undeniably medical and need to be covered.

You know that there are people with genetic disorders who suffer excruciating pain 360 days out of the year who cannot afford treatment right?

Also terrible. Also should have treatment. Also not exclusive to trans people getting treatment. Trans people represent a tiny fraction of the population. And many of us don’t want bottom surgery. Without the cost deflation that comes with single payer mine ran about 40000 before insurance. A one time expenditure that ultimately improved my physical health in a way that probably paid for itself in lack of need tor future treatments. This isn’t some crushing number and again only a tiny fraction of the population is applying it and it would defer other health costs. Or hell orchiectomy serves the hormonal purpose and is 10 percent the cost and the with no GA risk. Why not cover that?

If you have a healthy functioning body that works be grateful. A lot of us aren't that lucky. If the severely disabled can accept their bodies and make the best out of a shitty situation why can't you? Why should we accept you if you can't even accept yourself? Society can't make you love yourself, only you can do that.

Therapy doesn’t treat dysphoria effectively. That’s why transition exists at all. If conversion therapy worked on us society would never allow us to be a ourselves. I fixed my body. I accept my body now. It’s as good as I can make it. That’s the difference. A chronically disabled person may use a mobility aid or pain control or whatever else. And if they have a medically correctable condition they may need to correct it for quality of life. That’s what transition is. You can’t fathom how horrific it is to feel so disgusting and monstrous and every second of every day. To not be able to look in a mirror or shower in the light out or sheer gut wrenching disgust and wrongness. It’s constant unending psychic torture. If some cheap pills and a quick snip can give someone a life worth living why is that bad? Why is someone finding peace and ending their pain an affront to you? This is us”making the best of a shitty situation”.

Trans people need mental healthcare more than anything and they need to learn to accept themselves as they are. Having a healthy body is important, wrecking it chasing after a pipe dream is ill advised.

Our bodies aren’t wrecked. They’re fixed.

Affirmative surgeries & hormones' is today's lobotomy. We'll look back at this point in history with shame.

Lobotomies were for compliance not subjective improvement. Transition literally makes people better mentally. Comparing the two is offensive to those who whiny through both.

Transition isn’t demise. We are truly alive for the first time once we transition. Transition is an unfortunate necessity because society will never really accept us, but it’s a positive outcome. I am better. We are better. We aren’t dead or broken.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

Giving anorexics free liposuctions is wrong. Cutting off the limb/s of people with Body Integrity Identity Disorder is wrong. Damaging healthy bodies of people with sex dysphoria is also wrong.

Crazy idea, but how about we treat people with mental health problems with mental health treatment. Not cater to their current inability to accept reality.

You may very well be one of those people in these 20 year studies who has to face up to the devastating long term consequences of physically transitioning and I don't wish that on anyone. In many of the studies people were initially happy but years down the line the dysphoria wasn't actually cured and they had to deal with the dysphoria and a body that was wrecked by unnecessary hormones and surgery. Surgeries are a big fucking deal and they should not ever be done casually. A person can easily end up suffering from chronic pain & disability for the rest of their life, because of them. Hormones are also a big deal and can have horrible even lethal health consequences in the long run. There are a lot of unknowns and every transgender person who uses wrong sex hormones is effectively a guinea pig participating in a long term unethical medical experiment. Unnecessary surgeries and hormones should absolutely be hard to get. There should be gatekeeping involved.

This isn't coming from a position of hate. It's coming from a serious consideration of medical ethics and how people with mental health issues ought to be treated and cared for by society. Sometimes the kindest most ethical thing society and individuals can do for a person with a mental health issue is to say no. No I will not help you cut your own arm off. No I will not help you starve yourself to death. No I will not help you get wrong sex hormones and unnecessary surgeries that will destroy and/or remove perfectly healthy body parts.

These articles cite legitimate sources about how transition is not the best treatment and often does more harm than good without solving the underlying issue, because body dysmorphia is a mental health problem not a physical health problem. A perfectly healthy male or female body is not a problem, refusal to accept that reality is. Trans people should get evidence based health care, not ideological wishful thinking healthcare.

Transition as Treatment: The Best Studies Show the Worst Outcomes

Transgenderism: A Pathogenic Meme "The idea that one’s sex is a feeling, not a fact, has permeated our culture and is leaving casualties in its wake. Gender dysphoria should be treated with psychotherapy, not surgery."

Correction: Transgender Surgery Provides No Mental Health Benefit "The American Journal of Psychiatry has issued a major correction to a recent study. The Bränström study reanalysis demonstrated that neither “gender-affirming hormone treatment” nor “gender-affirming surgery” reduced the need of transgender-identifying people for mental health services. Fad medicine is bad medicine, and gender-anxious people deserve better."

Insuring Rights for “Wrong” Bodies

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden "Persons with transsexualism, after sex reassignment, have considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity than the general population. Our findings suggest that sex reassignment, although alleviating gender dysphoria, may not suffice as treatment for transsexualism, and should inspire improved psychiatric and somatic care after sex reassignment for this patient group."

Correction to Bränström and Pachankis "the results demonstrated no advantage of surgery in relation to subsequent mood or anxiety disorder-related health care"

“Transitioning” Procedures Don’t Help Mental Health, Largest Dataset Shows

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

You can’t cure dysphoria with normal mental health care. It doesn’t work. If it did they wouldn’t let us transition. Much of society would prefer there be no such thing as trans women.

Hormone therapy has been going for near 80 years. It’s not experimental or unethical. I’m not against some measure of reasonable psychiatric gatekeeping but for the people that need it, transition is the one and only effective treatment.

Transition isn’t destruction. It’s fixing a broken person. The alternative is unending unendurable suffering. That’s what you are arguing for, unchecked suffering.

Transition is the one thing that works. You are arguing for snake oil for the suffering when real effective treatments exist.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Much of society would prefer there be no such thing as trans women.

I don't think so. Society finds it much easier to understand a man who rejects masculinity because he feels he's a woman than a man who rejects it because...well, just because.

You are arguing for snake oil for the suffering when real effective treatments exist.

Alternatives should be looked into when said "treatment" involves healthy body part amputations, plastic surgeries and a lifetime taking hormones not meant for your body, either repressing or destroying your body's normal healthy hormonal production.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I believe studies over one person's anecdotes.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Even based on what circling says in the sub, "transition" doesn't seem to have resolve much of circling's problems.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Quite the contrary. My dysphoria is significantly ameliorated and I’m no longer suicidal even though my economic and social standing have dropped substantially. The cause of my issues now is that society refuses to treat nonpassing trabs people like normal humans instead of circuits freaks. Transition was extremely helpful. But dealing with bigots sucks.

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's good that you are not suicidal anymore. Though, I've my doubts about how much your dysphoria have really ameliorated if you cannot stand the slightest doubt about your identity. Believing that everyone is a bigot who think you're a freak who deserves no rights doesn't seem a very healthy state of mind to me. When you talk, it feels like you're proyecting your self-hate onto us.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can look in a mirror without getting nauseous. I can shower with the lights on. Trust me, It’s improved.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

And the countless studies that lead to transition being accepted in the first place? The studies from like 2 years ago showing that parents supporting a trans teenagers identity lead to substantially improved mental health? You are at brietbart levels of tinfoil if you honest believe this.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

And the countless studies that lead to transition being accepted in the first place? The studies from like 2 years ago showing that parents supporting a trans teenagers identity lead to substantially improved mental health? You are at brietbart levels of tinfoil if you honest believe this.

Please link to these "countless studies" including "the studies from like 2 years ago" about parents of trans--identified teens.

On the topic of teens: it's your right to do as you wish with your own adult body, but please lay off other people's kids. You don't appear to be aware of how unseemly & inappropriate it is for adult male supporters of transgenderism to be so insistent that they/you know best about how other people should raise & treat their own troubled, "gender confused" children - especially when the "expertise" of those adult males seems to come entirely from their/your own personal experience & the experience of other adult males similar to them/your own selves.

Your posting history doesn't give me the impression that you've raised any children, studied child & developmental psychology, have child/teen teaching credentials, are qualified to be a coach, youth group leader, counselor, babysitter or otherwise have worked with or done any caring for children of any age in any way. I also don't have the impression that you are trained in safeguarding.

If my impressions are erroneous, I apologize in advance.

Now I'm off to put a shine on my tinfoil hat.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If I had citations ready I would have given them. I read the study not committed it to memory.

But here’s an article about a study confirming the effectiveness of surgery on mental health outcomes.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1266033

And here’s a study showing that transitioning with supports leads to children with less elevated anxiety and other mental health issues than typical or gender identity disorder cases (meaning not significantly different than baseline youth population)

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/137/3/e20153223

On the topic of teens: it's your right to do as you wish with your own adult body, but please lay off other people's kids. You don't appear to be aware of how unseemly & inappropriate it is for adult male supporters of transgenderism to be so insistent that they/you know best about how other people should raise & treat their own troubled, "gender confused" children - especially when the "expertise" of those adult males seems to come entirely from their/your own personal experience & the experience of other adult males similar to them/your own selves.

Affirming identities in teens leads to reduced suicide risk and improved overall happiness. But I also don’t think any medical invervention for minors is appropriate until at earliest maybe 16 and even then only with psychiatric supervision. I’m pro informed consent for adults but not for minors.

I won’t share the details of my life here but I have a background that has had some working with children. Though that’s ultimately well beside the point.

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The paper from Pediatrics measured parental reports of anxiety and depresion among trans identified children aged 3 to 12 years old who have "socially transitioned" compared to non trans identified children of the same age. They didn't used trans identified children who didn't undergone "social transition" as control (typical from pro-"transition" studies, I must say). We also don't know what level of anxiety and depresion they had before transition, so we can't conclude whether "transition" has been effective or not. In addition, depresion is uncommon in prepubescent children and rise in adolescense -something the authors themselves admit.

Moreover, this is so unnecessary. Why allow these kids to undergone a "social transition" when most trans identified children desist if left alone?

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I apologize for making the assumption that you don't have experience working with children or qualifications to do so. That was prejudiced of me. I sincerely am sorry.

I carefully read both "studies" you cited, and have concluded that neither can be taken at all seriously as proof - or even as flimsy evidence - of their own claims, which BTW are actually more modest than the sweeping claims you say these studies make and prove.

The first one certainly cannot be said to "confirm" "the effectiveness of surgery on mental health outcomes." It's also not a "study." Rather, it's an "invited commentary" - in other word an opinion piece commissioned by an editor of JAMA Surgery, a publication whose raison d'etre is promoting surgeries and the interests of surgeons - that isn't based on investigating the outcomes of actual "trans surgery" patients who've been seen & followed up on face to face. Rather, it draws unsubstantiated conclusions from "an analysis" of the responses of anonymous persons to an online questionnaire meant to survey the US trans population circa 2013-14 that was published by the Williams Institute in 2015. Nobody even knows if the people who answered that online questionnaire actually are "trans" - and there's no way to tell how many, if any, were truthful in their answers.

Moreover, the people who did this "analysis" and wrote the opinion piece/commentary are two plastic surgeons who do "gender affirming" surgeries and a specialist in "gender medicine" who funnels patients to the surgeons. In other words, the authors are three people heavily invested in promoting surgeries as "the answer" for people with "gender issues" because that's how they all make their living - and their entire reputations and financial wellbeing are based on other medical professionals, the general public and potential patients seeing the sorts of surgeries they do and promote in a positive light.

And here’s a study showing that transitioning with supports leads to children with less elevated anxiety and other mental health issues than typical or gender identity disorder cases (meaning not significantly different than baseline youth population)

I don't have time to go into this other study in full detail here, but if you actually read it carefully & look at the methods used, you'll see that it has HUGE flaws.

Moreover, it doesn't say what you allege. It says right from the outset that the 73 kids age 3-12 in the study who were "socially transitioned" with full support of their parents and other adults in their lives had more anxiety than the baseline youth population and their closest age siblings.

Significantly, the levels of depression and anxiety in the 73 "trans" children studied also weren't determined by mental health professionals interviewing, observing and assessing the kids directly. Rather, the "trans" kids' levels of depression and anxiety were determined by having the parents of these children fill out standardized PROMIS forms which solely recorded the parents' perceptions of their children's mental health status by providing responses to such statements as "my child cries a lot" and "my child likes to be alone." And the study authors chose to use the very brief "short PROMIS forms" too, not the longer PROMIS forms that they had available to them, they could just as easily have used and which might have provided a fuller picture.

Since the parents of these very young children who filled out these brief forms are also the same people who "transed" these same kids, it seems reasonable to suspect they might have been inclined and incentivized to see and to report that the children they'd already deemed "trans" and were dressing and rearing according to the regressive sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex were doing much better in terms of mental health than they actually were doing. After all, none of us parents like to have our parenting decisions, methods and styles called into doubt; and none of us likes to think that we have made parenting choices that have ended up harming our kids.

Yet even these clearly not impartial parents still reported that the the kids they had transed had higher levels of anxiety than the controls - including when the controls were the transed kids' own siblings who were closest in age.

Also, I don't think the fact that the transed kids in the study were perceived by their parents not to have become more depressed after being transed than they previously had been, and that they weren't seen as any more depressed than the controls either, is really the ringing endorsement of childhood "transition" that you seem to think it is.

The key issue is, all the kids in the study - both the transed kids who were the focus, and the kids who served as controls/comparators - are from a generation of children with vastly higher rates of depression (and other mental health problems) than any other generations previously in history. Why are so many kids nowadays depressed? And if early-in-life social "transition" really does lead to "improved overall happiness" in children and teens as you keep saying it does, why doesn't this study that you yourself have cited as an example actually show that? If early "transition" is so great, why aren't droves of transed kids actually happy?

Seems to me one of the reasons both these "trans kids" and other kids are suffering anxiety, depression and other MH problems at rates never seen before is their parents. In the case of parents with so-called "trans kids," why are so many adults nowadays so heavily invested in sex stereotypes and gender ideology that they'd go so far as to "transition" their pre-pubescent chidren? And why are such people being taken good judges of the mental health status of their kids - or of anything else? After all, these parents are the very same people who taught their children not only to believe in rigid sex stereotypes, but that they as little kids must conform to those stereotypes - or esle.

Why can't these parents just love and accept their kids as they are? Why can't they let their sons wear tutus and play with dolls and their daughters have short hair and play with toy trains, cars & trucks? Why tell these poor children that if their personalities & interests deviate even slightly from the strictest of sexist standards that it means they must have the brains of the opposite sex and were "born in the wrong body"?

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Evidence for puberty blockers use very low, says NICE

Hormonal Tx of Youth With Gender Dysphoria Stops in Sweden

One Year Since Finland Broke with WPATH "Standards of Care"

[–]Penultimate_Penance 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Feel free to cite the studies you are referring to if you are so confident.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Those articles are sourcing legitimate studies and link directly to them so you can easily check out the studies for yourself. Trans activists have been so tyrannical with speech suppression that researchers and journalists who don't toe the party line have limited places to publish their findings and views. Sexual reassignment surgeries and wrong sex hormones harm the body. That is an objective fact. Do these surgeries actually cure gender dysphoria? That is very debatable. Is the price to a transgender's person health for their entire lives worth it? That is also very debatable.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do these surgeries actually cure gender dysphoria?

Sometimes. And the fact that it isn’t 100 percent is why there’s steps like psych reviews and time on hormones though.

Is the price to a transgender's person health for their entire lives worth it?

Yes. But also again I and many others removed from the burden of disphoria are better able to engage in self care and end up physically healthier. So I have to take a pill and can’t have children, what’s that compared to improved health on so many other levels?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"In regard to the emotional effects of transition, many activists will refer you to a 2018 Pediatrics journal article entitled “Transgender Adolescent Suicide Behavior.” But the study reported therein was based on just three years of data—collected between 2012 and 2015. What matters is the long term. And in this regard, the gold standard is a study of 324 medically transitioned adults, based on 30-year longitudinal data. The authors found that completing sex-reassignment surgery was associated with “considerably higher risks for mortality, suicidal behaviour, and psychiatric morbidity” as compared to the general population. Kids who are suicidal before their transition will likely continue to be suicidal, and the most intense ideation often comes years after transitioning. (Transgender folks themselves sometimes speak anecdotally of a seven-to-10-year trans suicide “itch” observed within the community.)"

The study this quote is referring to

Crazy idea, but if trans activists stopped drinking their own koolaid it would make it easier for researchers to test and try out mental health treatments, potentially in combination with drugs that could effectively cure or at the very least alleviate gender/sex dysphoria. (These are the treatments that should be paid for by the public dime) Transition in the long run is worse than the disease it purports to cure. By transitioned people's public behavior it is clear that for many if not most transitioning is merely a band aid and they still suffer hyper sensitivity, gender dysphoria and other comorbidities which are common among trans identified individuals. Changing the body without treating the underlying mental illness/s is not a real solution.

"Of the 298 transgender women, 41.5%of participants had 1 or more mental health or substance dependence diagnoses; 1 in 5 (20.1%) had 2 or more comorbid psychiatric diagnoses. Prevalence of specific disorders was as follows: lifetime and current major depressive episode, 35.4%and 14.7%, respectively; suicidality, 20.2%; generalized anxiety disorder, 7.9%; posttraumatic stress disorder, 9.8%; alcohol dependence, 11.2%; and nonalcohol psychoactive substance use dependence, 15.2%." Psychiatric Diagnoses and Comorbidities in a Diverse, Multicity Cohort of Young Transgender Women

Gender/Sex Dysphoria is essentially BDD. We should treat sex dysphoria in the same/or similar ways to the way we treat Body dysmorphic disorder. You know what is not recommended? Giving BDD sufferers a bunch of unnecessary plastic surgeries. Physical transition breaks the Hippocratic oath of "Do no harm". If sex dysphoria wasn't so politicized we could much more easily be giving real solutions to dysphoric people that won't wreck their health and bodies for the rest of their lives.

Adults should be free for the most part to take on cosmetic surgeries to change their appearance, but that should always be on their own dime. Wrong sex hormone 'treatments' should also be on their own dime. I'm still on the fence whether these procedures and treatments should outright be banned, because of how harmful they are in the long run. Clearly mentally unwell individuals saying they'll commit suicide if they don't get them makes me lean more towards advocating for outright banning these harmful medical practices. Unethical Doctors who 'help' people with their transitions are preying on vulnerable people who will have to pay the price for their rest of their lives.

Forget What Gender Activists Tell You. Here’s What Medical Transition Looks Like For this trans man her transition was pretty fucking high price to pay. Explain to me how we should be encouraging/making it easier anyone to do this with their bodies? The very least we can do is not pay for it with the public dime to make it as difficult as possible for adults to engage in this level of self harm. All of these surgeries are unnecessary, many trans people have found harmless/significantly less harmless ways to cope with their gender dysphoria, sometimes solving other mental health problems like depression have been effective. Physical intervention should always be the last resort and it is a fact that trans people will not keel over if they can't afford hormones or surgery.

"During my own transition, I had seven surgeries. I also had a massive pulmonary embolism, a helicopter life-flight ride, an emergency ambulance ride, a stress-induced heart attack, sepsis, a 17-month recurring infection due to using the wrong skin during a (failed) phalloplasty, 16 rounds of antibiotics, three weeks of daily IV antibiotics, the loss of all my hair, (only partially successful) arm reconstructive surgery, permanent lung and heart damage, a cut bladder, insomnia-induced hallucinations—oh and frequent loss of consciousness due to pain from the hair on the inside of my urethra. All this led to a form of PTSD that made me a prisoner in my apartment for a year. Between me and my insurance company, medical expenses exceeded $900,000.

During these 17 months of agony, I couldn’t get a urologist to help me. They didn’t feel comfortable taking me on as a patient—since the phalloplasty, like much of the transition process, is experimental. “Could you go back to the original surgeon?” they suggested."