QT/pro-trans: What are the most common misconceptions gender critical people have about things like being trans, gender identity, your goals or activism, etc?

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It’s not like it’s crippling or the difference between a man and a woman. Plus, other assets to male strength are not lost as all, like the larger heart and lungs, larger stronger bones, and greater height and reach. I’m sure the deconditioning caused by estrogen dosing does diminish strength to some degree but let’s not act like it turns men into little kittens.

Just skipping past the bits you were asked to prove? That’s fine but please stop making such a silly claim if you refuse to prove it.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Actually we lose bone mass and the heart being a muscle would weaken as well.

And I’m not talking about comparison to women, I’m not pro trans women in sports. I’m talking about vulnerability to men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

And I’m saying that a five percent loss isn’t enormous or such a vast difference. 95% of anything remaining is a lot. Again, what about men with atrophic conditions, who are underweight, who are wheelchair bound, or have dwarfism?

They are significantly weaker than that. Do they have entitlement to protection afforded by women? Are you suggesting that disabled people or men with eating disorders aren’t discriminated against and at risk from men who consider them lesser? Or are you saying that transwomen are more discriminated against and those men don’t need protection, just the transgender ones? Can you give us anything that would even suggest legitimacy in this claim? You’re not exactly forthcoming with proof but surely there’s vague whiff it could be true and not your own opinion that’s coloured by your bad experience.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Another group to consider is pre-pubescent boys or boys just starting puberty, who haven't developed the muscle mass & strength that older teen boys & men have, & which full-grown males like circling had prior to opting to change their hormone profiles. By custom - & in many cases by regulation or law - boys in the US are supposed to stop accompanying their moms, grans, sisters or other female carers into ladies' loos & locker rooms once they turn 8, though many boys clamor to use the men's on their own well before that.

Circling says circling's concern is "about vulnerability to men," not comparison to women. But young boys have far, far more "vulnerability to men" than full-grown males on T suppressants & estradiol do. So why, I wonder, does circling think it's OK for young boys to use male facilities on their own once they turn 8, but it's too dangerous for full-grown adult males to do so once they "identify as" the opposite sex?

Robbers, sex predators & violent assholes looking to steal another guy's i-phone & money, commit male-on-male sex crimes or just beat up others for the hell of it are much more likely to go after slight boys of age 9, 10 or 11 wearing expensive sneakers than full-grown adult males who happen to be wearing attire, hairstyles & cosmetics commonly associated with the opposite sex. Any criminal-minded guy who's served time behind bars, or been around guys who have, will be fully aware that there are plenty of strong trans-identified males out there with long rap sheets &/or backgrounds in the military & in macho male sports - & that a lot of these persons not only know how to fight, they have hair-trigger tempers & are itching to fight.

At this late date, practically everyone in the USA has seen or heard of public scenes like the ones in the below videos, which are sure to give even malevolent men ample pause before they'd consider picking on males they suspect might "identify as" trans nowadays. Whilst these sorts of "transwomen" do the trans "community" no favors, it's a pretty sure bet that they've increased the safety of trans-identified males as a whole by causing potential bashers to steer clear & back off.

https://youtu.be/UnZf5vWA0mg

https://youtu.be/w3itbkIGNVE

https://youtu.be/0xfc0RDzruU

https://www.tmz.com/2019/01/23/ex-navy-seal-kristin-beck-bashes-transgender-ban-military-service/

https://youtu.be/YgQy70_LPS4?t=106

https://youtu.be/_16sj0JN3VI

TW: profile of Evie Amati, an Australian trans-identified male from a very privileged background & very supportive family, who nearly killed several strangers in a 7-11 store by attacking them in the face & head with an axe: https://youtu.be/Fg3K6zbkW64

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because circling refuses to believe anybody is at the same level or at higher levels of risk than circling is.

There is no breaking their narrative of TW are the most oppressed, most victimised, most hated.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Again, what about men with atrophic conditions, who are underweight, who are wheelchair bound, or have dwarfism?

They also need accommodations and protections? And aren’t subject to the level of violence and vitriol trans women are. People with disabilities have a staggering abuse rate but almost exclusively at the hands of caregivers, not random men they meet.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Where should those protections come from? Should they come from women the way protections for transwomen come at the expense of women?

Can you tell us how you gathered the data indicating that worldwide, you will face more discrimination than a man with dwarfism, SMA, Anorexia Nervosa, or any other diseases or disorders that cause weakness or muscle loss?

How do you make that assessment? Is it based on your experience of a violent incident or are there figures you just really don’t want to share because there’s a limited number of views before the info disappears?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Where should those protections come from? Should they come from women the way protections for transwomen come at the expense of women?

Well the ADA federally mandates a series in of protections and accommodations for people with disabilities in America from a variety of people but I don’t accept your assertion that trans protections come at the expense of women.

Can you tell us how you gathered the data indicating that worldwide, you will face more discrimination than a man with dwarfism, SMA, Anorexia Nervosa, or any other diseases or disorders that cause weakness or muscle loss?

I said vitriol and violence and specified men they meet not caregivers. I didn’t say discrimination.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ncvs-trans-victimization/

Trans people age 16 and up experience 86.2 victimizations per 1,000 people, compared to just 21.7 per 1,000 for cis people, according to the study. Transgender women experience violent crime at the rate of 86.1 per 1,000 people, and trans men experience it at a rate of 107.5 per 1,000. That means that over one in 10 trans men are the victims of a violent crime at some point in their life. Those numbers drop to 23.7 and 19.8 per 1,000 people for cis women and cis men, respectively.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ncvs-trans-victimization/

LOL, the Williams Institute hasn't even published that report. They just posted a few "highlights" that make trans people out to be the most victimized people anywhere evuh.

To see the report, you have to email the Williams Institute & make a request, which they are under no obligation to assent to. The website says:

Please contact our communications office to request a copy of this study.

What are they hiding? Probably their dubious methodology for starters. What a sham.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your blind assumption that it has poor methodology really speaks to your insistence that trans women are somehow high queens of society who none would ever harm and everyone bows to.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Anecdotal data and small studies suggest…

Anecdotes. They’re not facts. They’re not verifiable. Please provide something concrete. Lol at the claim transwomen are more often victims than actual women. Sheer numbers would disprove this.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Take it up with the authors of the published study.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But it's not a "study" & it's not been published. "Highlights" of some supposed findings have been posted on the Williams Institute website, but the report itself is being kept under wraps.