QT/pro-trans: What are the most common misconceptions gender critical people have about things like being trans, gender identity, your goals or activism, etc?

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[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

OP's questions were about the misconceptions that "QT/pro trans" people believe GC have about "being trans, gender identity" and QT/pro trans "goals or activism" in general, but your reply strikes me as pertaining solely or mainly to how you think we misapprehend trans-identified males. To wit:

They also wildly underestimate the loss of physical strength as well as the way society treats us differently than men.

But not all people who identify as trans claim to lose physical strength due to the "gender affirming" medical interventions they partake of - only males do. Females who identify as trans & take exogenous T as a result claim to gain muscle mass & strength - & they typically do, too, albeit to nowhere near male levels.

BTW, if you want to persuade GC that we really do underestimate the amount of physical strength lost by trans-identified males as a result of the "gender affirming" medical treatments they get, the best way to do this would be by providing some evidence. Meaning research & papers by scientists, not just claims & assertions by such persons & their allies.

As to your contention that GCs also "underestimate" "the way society treats us differently than men," I think that you might be misunderstanding GCs in turn. Many of us recognize acknowledge that trans-identified males often are treated differently than males who don't identify as trans are treated.

What we disagree with is the notion that trans-identified males are treated the same as, or similar to, the way girls & women are treated. We also disagree with the contention that in all cases across the board, trans-identified males are always treated worse than other males.

I have seen many people compare it to eating disorders and as someone diagnosed both with an eating disorder and gender dysphoria I can absolutely say they aren’t the same thing.

But the comparisons to EDs are most often made when speaking specifically of young female persons who identify as trans, not to all persons of both sexes.

Although EDs can affect either sex, the large majority of persons with EDs are female, & always have been female. In female persons, EDs, "gender dysphoria" & adopting a trans or non-binary identity often stem from the same impulses - namely a strong desire & urge to try to escape having female biology & a female human body, & all the social constraints, second-tier status, sexual objectification, physical problems, vulnerabilities, limitations & shaming that being a female human in a misogynistic, male supremacist society involves, particularly once sexual maturation commences & female secondary sex characteristics become evident to self & others.

These impulses are very different to those that drive males to identify as the opposite sex. Females who identify as trans are usually trying to escape being sexualized, sexually objectified, desired, pursued & subordinated by others, although this might not be their sole motivation. Whereas many males who identify as trans seek & wish to experience the very things females are trying to run away from. Not all, mind you. But many.

Seems to me that many GC people are better at seeing the distinctions between the different groups & kinds of people who identify as trans, their different motivations & experiences, & the variations that can & do occur in the cases of specific individuals & within & across sub-populations, than many QT/pro-trans & trans-identified people are.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

I don’t claim to understand trans men. I sympathize with them over the shared struggles with dysphoria but I cannot ever really understand someone who wants to be a man.

BTW, if you want to persuade GC that we really do underestimate the amount of physical strength lost by trans-identified males as a result of the "gender affirming" medical treatments they get, the best way to do this would be by providing some evidence. Meaning research & papers by scientists, not just claims & assertions by such persons & their allies.

I’ve previously cited the Harper endurance study as well as a study indicating a loss of an average of a 5 percent of muscle volume loss within the first year.

We also disagree with the contention that in all cases across the board, trans-identified males are always treated worse than other males

And you are wrong. Hence my bringing it up. Trans woman are treated worse than cis men. Universally.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

I’ve previously cited the Harper endurance study as well as a study indicating a loss of an average of a 5 percent of muscle volume loss within the first year.

Males post puberty have 45% more muscle volume/area than females do. World Rugby found that trans-identified males lost 0-4% after one year of T suppression & exogenous estradiol, not 5%.

Similarly, trans-identified males start out with 30-50% more muscle strength than women have. But World Rugby found that "gender affirming" testosterone suppression & estradiol in trans-identified males results a loss in strength of only 0-9%.

Even if in the first year of "gender affirming" treatment, males do lose 5% of muscle mass &, say, an average of 5% in muscle strength as well, so what? They'd still have 40% more muscle volume/area and 25-45% more muscle strength than women. Moreover, what little research there is shows they continue retain these sorts of huge advantages even after 3 years on T suppressants & exogenous estrogen.

Plus, even Harper acknowledges that during "transition," many males try to increase the amount of muscle & strength they lose by ceasing to train, & often not exercising at all, as well as by going on starvation diets or other lose-weight-fast regimens. Ross Tucker of Science of Sport has said that there's evidence that if males continue to eat well, work out & do weight-bearing exercises whilst taking estradiol & T suppressants for "gender affirming" purposes, some actually gain muscle mass & muscle strength.

I understand that to males accustomed to male muscle mass, male strength, male speed & overall male superiority in most sports, losing amounts of normal muscle volume & strength in the 5% range might seem like a big deal. But this is because it's in comparison to how muscular & strong their male bodies previously were - & to how muscular & strong other males' bodies still are. The norms by which they, and you, are measuring are male standards. These norms & standards have nothing to do with women.

Also, all the tinkering males do with hormones doesn't do away with all the other advantages males have such as the much bigger hearts & lungs, longer & sturdier bones, taller stature, narrower pelvis, bigger hands & feet & so on.

https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2020/10/09/a67e3cc3-7dea-4f1e-b523-2cba1073729d/Transgender-Research_Summary-of-d

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I’m not a proponent if trans women in sports I’m talking about vulnerability to men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Women come into the equation when you’ve so often stated that the only way to keep transwomen safe from other men is to allow them into women’s spaces.

Consider this, you’re afraid because you’re about, by your own estimate,5% weaker than the average man. We are afraid because the average transwoman is at least 30-45% stronger than us.

Why are our fears of that much greater strength so dismissible when your fear of a much smaller difference is so great? Nobody can claim that women are not harmed by transwomen. There’s a thousand criminal cases proving otherwise.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

the average transwoman is at least 30-45% stronger than us.

Or at least the average transitioning one. With selfID, men don't even need to transition, and even expecting them to is bigoted and controlling.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, it’s friggin’ bleak. But somehow they’re the most victimised and oppressed by men.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Women come into the equation when you’ve so often stated that the only way to keep transwomen safe from other men is to allow them into women’s spaces.

Most practical and viable, not only possible. I’ve repeatedly said single occupancy neutral spaces are closed preferable but will not be commonplace without a federal mandate.

Consider this, you’re afraid because you’re about, by your own estimate,5% weaker than the average man. We are afraid because the average transwoman is at least 30-45% stronger than us.

Actually I’m post op and have been for an extended period. I’ve lost about 40-50 percent of my pre transition strength. And that was 5 percent of muscle mass in the first year.

Why are our fears of that much greater strength so dismissible when your fear of a much smaller difference is so great?

Access and likelihood of violence. More men will attack trans women than trans women will attack men. And they are more capable when they do engage in violence.

There’s a thousand criminal cases proving otherwise.

No there are not. At the minimum this is wildly hyperbolic.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So my claims are hyperbolic despite me having the ability to prove it, but your claims which you have repeatedly refused to back up are gospel?

I found over fifty cases of transwomen assaulting, killing, or molesting women and girls in under ten minutes. You really think I couldn’t find a thousand?

Do you ever read back things you say like that and think wow, that’s weird?

Share the stats or please stop making baseless claims you made up on the fly. You cannot reasonably be expected to be taken at your word when you insist anything we say without figures is hyperbole or a lie.

Since you always say the third options/spaces are impossible, you’re clearly advocating for trans women’s access to women’s spaces. Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

So my claims are hyperbolic despite me having the ability to prove it, but your claims which you have repeatedly refused to back up are gospel?

You do not have thousands of cases of trans women being violent towards trans women.

I found over fifty cases of transwomen assaulting, killing, or molesting women and girls in under ten minutes. You really think I couldn’t find a thousand?

I absolutely do not.

Share the stats or please stop making baseless claims you made up on the fly. You cannot reasonably be expected to be taken at your word when you insist anything we say without figures is hyperbole or a lie.

You mean other than the study I just cited?

Since you always say the third options/spaces are impossible, you’re clearly advocating for trans women’s access to women’s spaces. Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

Didn’t say impossible. Said Impractical and requiring a federal mandate. Ive said it’s impossible for trans women to create those spaces ourselves. That’s not that they are impossible generally.

Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

Less trans women attack natal women than men. And less natal women attack trans women than men attack trans women. Of the currently available 2 options trans women with natal women minimizes total incidents of violence. It’s not an optimal solution but consider this:

Two people are in a small shelter. The shelter is surrounded by tigers. If one persons says to the other “get out of this shelter, you can build your own to protect you from the tigers” does that theoretical possibility protect the second person from tigers in the mean time?

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Impractical and requiring a federal mandate. Ive said it’s impossible for trans women to create those spaces ourselves.

Boo fucking hoo. Yes, tell us women more how impossible it is to create special spaces for us, we definitely don't have a clue about those struggles (also do it while trying to dismantle these spaces in the same breath).

It's "impractical" to advocate your own spaces, but it's not "impractical" to dismantle women's spaces and force everyone to call men women because of what pronouns they use? Trans people sure have a ton of power for being so voiceless.

Two people are in a small shelter. The shelter is surrounded by tigers. If one persons says to the other “get out of this shelter, you can build your own to protect you from the tigers” does that theoretical possibility protect the second person from tigers in the mean time?

Uh, no. One person is in a shelter that they've made for themselves. There's a bunch of tigers outside. One tiger is bullied and bitten by the others, so it says "Let me in, these tigers are dangerous! I'm weaker than them! I'm one of you!" and the person refuses and tells them to build their own shelter, does that protect the tiger in the mean time? Should the person be made to share their space with the tiger?

Also, we'd be more understanding if any trans person advocated their own spaces. This is not even in the picture anywhere because it'd be "invalidating". In fact, more people are advocating dismantling gendered spaces in general than creating trans spaces.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s impractical to advocate for themselves..feels like such a wishy-washy statement. It’s hard? So was getting the right to vote and be considered people not property, it wasn’t practical to get women’s spaces in the first place. I cannot understand this idea that women got their rights easily and freely and are just hoarding the safety out of hatred of transwomen, not reasonable fear of them as men.

It’s exhausting to see this learned helplessness from qt. Women are already expected to take up so much responsibility for men, transwomen just expect women to take them under wing like they’re scared little girls.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

we'd be more understanding if any trans person advocated their own spaces. This is not even in the picture anywhere because it'd be "invalidating".

I'm really sorry change isn't happening fast enough. It would certainly be more reassuring as a sign of progress if it were more obvious or noticeable, but I can see how it might not be evident even if it's really happening. Hopefully things can change on a bit more of a grander scale over time.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Study was based on anecdotes. This means your proof is questionable. Do you have proof that is not based on a collection of anecdotes?

Here are fifteen cases to start. If you’d like, I’ll send you more. There’s plenty.

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2018/oct/11/karen-white-how-manipulative-and-controlling-offender-attacked-again-transgender-prison

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

https://www.womenarehuman.com/trans-person-lured-drugged-robbed-victims-of-thousands-in-designer-goods-say-police/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/male-sexually-violent-predator-transferred-to-womens-prison-after-identifying-as-a-woman/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-indiv-stalks-pours-boiling-water-on-casino-patron-who-spurned-sex-advances/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/confessed-femicidal-killers-transgender-identity-may-open-door-to-lighter-sentence/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-pedophile-with-long-criminal-record-arrested-for-harry-potter-erotica-web-searches/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/evil-dangerous-transgender-child-rapist-imprisoned-for-86-sex-attacks/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-20-year-old-faces-three-counts-of-sexual-violence/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-paedophile-jailed-for-seeking-to-commit-child-sex-offences-against-adolescent-girls/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-farmer-veteran-killed-two-and-fed-their-bodies-to-pigs/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/more-violence-from-trans-activists-towards-women-protesting-male-violence/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/online-child-safety-team-exposes-transgender-child-rapist/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/transgender-person-arrested-for-shooting-a-woman-three-times-as-she-sat-in-a-car/

https://www.womenarehuman.com/trans-activists-ratchet-up-violent-attacks-against-women-in-france-spain-for-international-womens-day-2021/

Imagine two people are in a modern shopping center. One is smaller, weaker, and make up the majority of victims of sex based crime. One is a smaller weaker person with the same characteristics and socialisation as the perpetrators of sex based crimes. You each need to pee. The smallest person most likely to be victim of sex crimes receives threats of sex crimes if she expresses discomfort about using the same bathroom as the other person in the mall.

Two people are expressing opposing ideas. One has a social justice movement behind them, with politicians, celebrities, and the fabulously wealthy supporting them. There are marches on university campuses in their support. School curriculums are altered to educate people about accepting this idea, laws are changed to reflect their idea, clinics serving people with this idea pop up faster than subway franchises, foundations and charities are created to support this idea, communities are built online over celebrating this idea.

One receives threats of death, threats of rape, threats of violence, threats of bombs, is banned from media, blamed for suicides, and told to kill themselves.

A chicken is in the henhouse. A fox asks to come in because there is a dog outside. Why is the hen supposed to protect the fox? The fox has opportunity to build a den.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Study was based on anecdotes

It was based on the national crime victimization survey and surveys are an accepted data gathering tool.

Two people are expressing opposing ideas. One has a social justice movement behind them, with politicians, celebrities, and the fabulously wealthy supporting them. There are marches on university campuses in their support. School curriculums are altered to educate people about accepting this idea, laws are changed to reflect their idea, clinics serving people with this idea pop up faster than subway franchises, foundations and charities are created to support this idea, communities are built online over celebrating this idea.

If you think this describes trans peoples lives you have a very inaccurate picture. Remember JK Rowling, one of the richest and most visible women in the world is a champion against trans rights. There’s not some grand wave of trans support. Some people support us, some don’t. And I don’t know where you think that “fabulously wealthy” supporting us is happening. Its actually extremely difficult to locate trans care providers. I have to drive over an hour for each appointment and cross a state line. And I’m a lucky one. A preliminary appointment for consideration for hormones with the NHS has a multi year waiting list. In many states we have essentially no legal protections of any kind. We got employment non discrimination federally from the Supreme Court last year but otherwise many, mine included, have literally no protection for trans people legally. None. You have a wildly unrealistic idea of the actual situation for trans people.

One is a smaller weaker person with the same characteristics and socialisation as the perpetrators of sex based crimes

I don’t agree with your core premise that this describes trans women.

One receives threats of death, threats of rape, threats of violence, threats of bombs, is banned from media, blamed for suicides, and told to kill themselves.

Do you honestly not believe these happen to trans people? Haven’t you seen the join the 41 percent memes? Or seen trans people or allies doxed by radfems and forced to move or put in fear of their homes being attacked?

A chicken is in the henhouse. A fox asks to come in because there is a dog outside. Why is the hen supposed to protect the fox? The fox has opportunity to build a den.

We aren’t talking about animals. We are talking about people. And this analogy is inapt even then because we are already using the facilities. We aren’t the ones asking for a change in the status quo on bathrooms, you are.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

A female poster asked:

Why are our fears [meaning the fears of girls & women] of that much greater strength [of males over females] so dismissible when your fear of a much smaller difference [between two groups of males] is so great?

You responded to this question from a female person about the enormous male over female strength advantage by once again speaking only about the risk of male on male violence:

Access and likelihood of violence. More men will attack trans women than trans women will attack men. And they are more capable when they do engage in violence.

Huh? You constantly portray "trans women" as delicate, featherweight weaklings who'd never hurt a fly, but now you're saying that some will attack other males. And your exclusive focus on males, male wants, male needs, male marginalization, male suffering, male supposed vulnerabilities & so on means that girls & women are completely invisible to you. We seem not to matter or even register in your mind except, that is, as human shields to keep you safe from other males. And so long as we might be of use to serve male interests in other ways.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? You constantly portray "trans women" as delicate, featherweight weaklings who'd never hurt a fly, but now you're saying that some will attack other males.

This was an autocorrect problem it should have said “than trans women will attack natal women”

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think male trans people are the only men vulnerable to violence from other men? Gay men have been targeted with physical violence for ages, men of smaller and weaker stature and even men with meek personalities are popular targets for bullying. Should we let all of them into female spaces? Male inter-personal violence is unfortunate, but it is not up to women to sacrifice their safety to accommodate these men. Men being bullied does not make them safe or not-misogynistic, and the issues that they have among themselves are up to them to fix, instead of using women as scapegoats.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Please provide evidence for this last claim. A retelling of the time you were victimised does not constitute evidence.

Also, 5 percent is so little. If this tiny bit of loss of strength makes transwomen so vulnerable, shouldn’t there be campaigns to let in very small men, men with dwarfism, men with anorexia Nervosa, men with atrophy, and elderly men, since they are even more vulnerable due to significantly less strength?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

5 percent of muscle mass is not very little. It hugely siginificant. It’s the same rate of loss that is experience by someone going from regular strength training to no workouts at all. Its extremely substantial.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

It’s not like it’s crippling or the difference between a man and a woman. Plus, other assets to male strength are not lost as all, like the larger heart and lungs, larger stronger bones, and greater height and reach. I’m sure the deconditioning caused by estrogen dosing does diminish strength to some degree but let’s not act like it turns men into little kittens.

Just skipping past the bits you were asked to prove? That’s fine but please stop making such a silly claim if you refuse to prove it.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Actually we lose bone mass and the heart being a muscle would weaken as well.

And I’m not talking about comparison to women, I’m not pro trans women in sports. I’m talking about vulnerability to men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

And I’m saying that a five percent loss isn’t enormous or such a vast difference. 95% of anything remaining is a lot. Again, what about men with atrophic conditions, who are underweight, who are wheelchair bound, or have dwarfism?

They are significantly weaker than that. Do they have entitlement to protection afforded by women? Are you suggesting that disabled people or men with eating disorders aren’t discriminated against and at risk from men who consider them lesser? Or are you saying that transwomen are more discriminated against and those men don’t need protection, just the transgender ones? Can you give us anything that would even suggest legitimacy in this claim? You’re not exactly forthcoming with proof but surely there’s vague whiff it could be true and not your own opinion that’s coloured by your bad experience.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Another group to consider is pre-pubescent boys or boys just starting puberty, who haven't developed the muscle mass & strength that older teen boys & men have, & which full-grown males like circling had prior to opting to change their hormone profiles. By custom - & in many cases by regulation or law - boys in the US are supposed to stop accompanying their moms, grans, sisters or other female carers into ladies' loos & locker rooms once they turn 8, though many boys clamor to use the men's on their own well before that.

Circling says circling's concern is "about vulnerability to men," not comparison to women. But young boys have far, far more "vulnerability to men" than full-grown males on T suppressants & estradiol do. So why, I wonder, does circling think it's OK for young boys to use male facilities on their own once they turn 8, but it's too dangerous for full-grown adult males to do so once they "identify as" the opposite sex?

Robbers, sex predators & violent assholes looking to steal another guy's i-phone & money, commit male-on-male sex crimes or just beat up others for the hell of it are much more likely to go after slight boys of age 9, 10 or 11 wearing expensive sneakers than full-grown adult males who happen to be wearing attire, hairstyles & cosmetics commonly associated with the opposite sex. Any criminal-minded guy who's served time behind bars, or been around guys who have, will be fully aware that there are plenty of strong trans-identified males out there with long rap sheets &/or backgrounds in the military & in macho male sports - & that a lot of these persons not only know how to fight, they have hair-trigger tempers & are itching to fight.

At this late date, practically everyone in the USA has seen or heard of public scenes like the ones in the below videos, which are sure to give even malevolent men ample pause before they'd consider picking on males they suspect might "identify as" trans nowadays. Whilst these sorts of "transwomen" do the trans "community" no favors, it's a pretty sure bet that they've increased the safety of trans-identified males as a whole by causing potential bashers to steer clear & back off.

https://youtu.be/UnZf5vWA0mg

https://youtu.be/w3itbkIGNVE

https://youtu.be/0xfc0RDzruU

https://www.tmz.com/2019/01/23/ex-navy-seal-kristin-beck-bashes-transgender-ban-military-service/

https://youtu.be/YgQy70_LPS4?t=106

https://youtu.be/_16sj0JN3VI

TW: profile of Evie Amati, an Australian trans-identified male from a very privileged background & very supportive family, who nearly killed several strangers in a 7-11 store by attacking them in the face & head with an axe: https://youtu.be/Fg3K6zbkW64

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because circling refuses to believe anybody is at the same level or at higher levels of risk than circling is.

There is no breaking their narrative of TW are the most oppressed, most victimised, most hated.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Again, what about men with atrophic conditions, who are underweight, who are wheelchair bound, or have dwarfism?

They also need accommodations and protections? And aren’t subject to the level of violence and vitriol trans women are. People with disabilities have a staggering abuse rate but almost exclusively at the hands of caregivers, not random men they meet.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Where should those protections come from? Should they come from women the way protections for transwomen come at the expense of women?

Can you tell us how you gathered the data indicating that worldwide, you will face more discrimination than a man with dwarfism, SMA, Anorexia Nervosa, or any other diseases or disorders that cause weakness or muscle loss?

How do you make that assessment? Is it based on your experience of a violent incident or are there figures you just really don’t want to share because there’s a limited number of views before the info disappears?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Where should those protections come from? Should they come from women the way protections for transwomen come at the expense of women?

Well the ADA federally mandates a series in of protections and accommodations for people with disabilities in America from a variety of people but I don’t accept your assertion that trans protections come at the expense of women.

Can you tell us how you gathered the data indicating that worldwide, you will face more discrimination than a man with dwarfism, SMA, Anorexia Nervosa, or any other diseases or disorders that cause weakness or muscle loss?

I said vitriol and violence and specified men they meet not caregivers. I didn’t say discrimination.

https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ncvs-trans-victimization/

Trans people age 16 and up experience 86.2 victimizations per 1,000 people, compared to just 21.7 per 1,000 for cis people, according to the study. Transgender women experience violent crime at the rate of 86.1 per 1,000 people, and trans men experience it at a rate of 107.5 per 1,000. That means that over one in 10 trans men are the victims of a violent crime at some point in their life. Those numbers drop to 23.7 and 19.8 per 1,000 people for cis women and cis men, respectively.