All: How have your beliefs evolved?

submitted by [deleted] from (self.GCdebatesQT)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Peaking passes. I don’t know about Fleurista but I would assume the same. The difference in the life of a stealth trans woman and one who can’t pass is a big gap. The need for protections is a lot clearer to people in my position I suppose.

Even leaving aside the constant insults I get, with assertions I have x y z mental disorder and am a raging misigynist worse than “other men”, There’s no common ground that can be found when so many of you are arguing for transition to be inaccessible and pushing policies that would basically remove people like me from society. Surely that’s understandable.

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Fair point. Fleurista has a YouTube channel by the way, in case you wanted to check her out.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXJtylj7hCourJmYC1eFE1g/videos

The difference in the life of a stealth trans woman and one who can’t pass is a big gap. The need for protections is a lot clearer to people in my position I suppose.

But don't you think passing trans women are in favor of protections? Clearly, they would need a protected space in many cases, too. And GC isn't against protected spaces. I know you and I have talked about that before, and you're in favor of dedicated gender-neutral restrooms and locker rooms for people who either don't pass or don't feel comfortable with others of their natal sex.

Even leaving aside the constant insults I get, with assertions I have x y z mental disorder and am a raging misigynist worse than “other men”

I don't think anyone should be insulting you. You've always been very polite. I've never seen you be rude to someone in an interaction. You do have a very negative attitude towards men, but I'm not sure how that means you're a "raging misogynist." Anyway, I haven't seen that from you. Someone actually said you were worse than other natal males?

There’s no common ground that can be found when so many of you are arguing for transition to be inaccessible and pushing policies that would basically remove people like me from society. Surely that’s understandable.

No one wants you removed from society, though. What GC beliefs would prevent you from getting a job, buying a house, voting, marrying, raising kids, etc.? You should be able to live your life just like any other citizen. If we don't believe that you've literally changed sexes (which I don't think you believe either?) it shouldn't affect your ability to go about your daily life like any other person, male or female.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I assume they aren’t against them but they need them less and see the need for them less so surely they are at least less stridently for them.

And GC isn't against protected spaces.

But also not doing anything for them. Since they don’t exist and trans people can’t make them it’s at best a hypothetical solution or at worst a smokescreen depending on the one speaking. Without concentrated action from non trans people such spaces won’t happen. I do believe dedicated single occupancy neutral spaces is the best solution but only action by non trans people can make that happen.

The “worse than other males” has been directed at all trans women not me specifically but I’ve seen a couple of people say such here.

Removal from society is the outgrowth or what you are espousing. Take bathrooms, without access to safe facilities we lose the ability to participate in many facets of public lfe. The net effect of banning us from women’s facilities and not building new ones is essentially a ban from us participating in large sections of public life.

Or the fact that many of you object to dedicated trans protections ( instead saying it should just be for gnc people broadly) which would leave a gap to be exploited by those seeking to discriminate against us.

Categorization of transition as cosmetic as I have seen pushed for not only renders passing an impossibility but essentially deprives all but extremely wealthy trans people necessary medical care for their mental well being.

Whether or not you purposefully and specifically wish harm to us doesn’t preclude harm from the outgrowth of the policies gc sometimes pushes.

Not to mention we can be denied housing for being trans, voter id laws combined with trans people being unable to update id as many of you push for makes that uniquely dangerous and embarrassing, marrying is made far less likely without timely and affordable transition, It’s been directly argued on the old Reddit board that we should be banned from adopting as mentally unfit and combined with transition induced infertility would make raising children. Impossible for many of us. Your (gc not necessarily specially you) policies left to course at least complicates our ability to do those things.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But also not doing anything for them.

Why should GC do anything about? It's trans identified males who don't want to share spaces with men, you're the ones who should be advocating for third spaces. And don't give me the ridiculous excuse that no one cares about what trans identified people wants. The trans lobby has been changing laws and policies behind everyone's back to make self-ID a thing. In some countries, "gender identity" is already enshrined in law. There is a middle aged man that will be competing against women in a Olympics's weightlifting event, and he is far from being the only male competing in the female categories of several sports. You have a good bunc of the Media supporting your causes and using prefered prounouns and other "inclusive language". Even news sources who publish articles against transgenderism often use "prefered pronouns". To say nothing of the support from Big Tech companies like Google, Reddit, Twitter, etcetera. Many scientis and health care professionals are bending backwards to entertain absurd ideas like sex is a spectrum or that you can change sex. But you can't have third spaces? Give me a break!

If you have a problem with the status quo, you should complain with the trans activists who are doing nothing to make trans spaces a possibility. Of course, it will be useless as they don't wan't third spaces. No, they want the women's spaces. If it were merely a matter of safety, third spaces should suffice. However, third spaces won't provide the "validation" and the access to vunlnerable victims that many trans identified males actually want.

Why should women do anything for you when it's obvious you don't give a f*** about women and that you only see us as human shields?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's trans identified males who don't want to share spaces with men, you're the ones who should be advocating for third spaces. And don't give me the ridiculous excuse that no one cares about what trans identified people wants.

We’ve had this conversation. Why ask and then tell me not to answer? If you just want to rant and not actually have a conversation there’s gc main.

If you have a problem with the status quo, you should complain with the trans activists who are doing nothing to make trans spaces a possibility.

You are the ones arguing for change. The stausbquo is us having access to necessary facilities. You are arguing to have us banned from them. And without accompanying safety changes. That’s my point.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We’ve had this conversation. Why ask and then tell me not to answer?

Yes, we have had this conversation before and I find your claims of nobody listening to trans identified people unconvincing. So, if trans identified people are so marginalized as you said, explain to me how have they acomplished all the things I listed and more, and in such a short time.

If you just want to rant and not actually have a conversation there’s gc main.

Says the person who is contantly ranting in this sub.

You are the ones arguing for change. The stausbquo is us having access to necessary facilities. You are arguing to have us banned from them. And without accompanying safety changes. That’s my point.

You are NOT entintled to use women's spaces just because you want to. Trans identified males are using them because they don't give a dam about ignoring women's boundaries and have bully society to accept all your demands without questioning. You cry about being in danger in men's spaces, but trans identified males don't give a dam about any harm a woman may suffer as consequense of males entering formerly single-sex spaces like bathrooms, changing rooms, shelters, prisons, etcetera. And there is no lack of examples of women being hurt because of this. So, again, don't dodge the question and tell me why should we care about you when you obviously don't care about us? You only view us as human shields and necessary collateral damage to get what you want, and then get mad when women are not rushing to do whatever you want?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We haven’t accomplished anything. Lgbt people together have done it for us, not us alone. You also wildly overestimate the protections in place for most trans people. Cherry-picking from the few places with right s doesn’t demonstrate some kind of dominating trans cabal.

Again you are the one arguing for a change from status quo. How can you argue that you are morally justified by arguing for a change that will absolutely harm trans women without doing something to mitigate that harm. You are the one arguing for something to change.