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[–]BiologyIsReal 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Why wouldn't humans have sexual display?

You're missing the point again. She is not saying that humans don't have sexual display, but that humans are driven for other things besides sex. You were the one who claimed that feminity and masculinity were sexuality, so why are you surprised that others think you view everything through sexual lens? And I think Juniperious is right: you seem to be extrapolating your own particular experiences to everyone else. You may not claim to be a woman, but you surely like to act as if you were an expert on women and you try to shield your views under the excuse of "evolution".

And before you ask, no, I don't believe in the blank slate theory. I think differences between women and men are due to both nature and nurture.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

You're missing the point again. She is not saying that humans don't have sexual display, but that humans are driven for other things besides sex.

Of course.

You were the one who claimed that feminity and masculinity were sexuality,

I meant to write "Masculinity and femininity are deeply naturally connected to sexuality."

It is not all of it but they are connected.

so why are you surprised that others think you view everything through sexual lens? And I think Juniperious is right: you seem to be extrapolating your own particular experiences to everyone else. You may not claim to be a woman, but you surely like to act as if you were an expert on women and you try to shield your views under the excuse of "evolution".

I don't think it is my experience alone that see masculinity and femininity as being deeply connected to the sex lives of humans.

That does not mean all of it is sexual.

And before you ask, no, I don't believe in the blank slate theory. I think differences between women and men are due to both nature and nurture.

Well I agree then. That would be my starting point and those differences are often connected to sexual behaviour.

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

No, I don't think we agree at all. You strongly lean on atributing (nearly) all sex differences to nature and assigning a sexual motive to (almost) everything. You often miss what we told you here because you refuse to analyse the power dynamics present in what society expect from each sex unless you're getting off of it, that is. Sex roles and stereotypes vary through time and culture, but always men are at the top of the hierarchy. Men who are perceived as not "manly" enough for whatever reason are looked down by other men, but women lose not matter wheter they conform to social norms or not. But you refuse to recognise this because you get off on viewing yourself as a sumissive woman and women being naturally sumissive. And when you're challenged here for your sexist views, you twist what we say to suit your own ideas of women and men.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

But I don't enjoy submissive women. Why would I want that all to be true? And I don't ID as a woman.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

You call yourself a straight cross-dresser, so even if you don't ID as a woman, you still get sexually aroused by the idea of being a woman, don't you? You also has described yourself as sumissive in the bedroom and you link sumission with women (i.e. yu think we are naturally sumissive and naturally attracted to dominant men). That is what I meant.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

Do I get the politically problematic connection of that? Of course. It is very much in my mind.

But my desires came before my understanding. Right? You don't think I actively chose to be a crossdresser with a love of dominant women?

I can think well this is just me. Nothing to do with the rest of society or people. But I have to reason out what I see in the rest of the world.

A problem is the straight erotic world is overwhelmed with those gender norms.

Straight women do have a preference for dominant masculine men. The pattern is so strong I assume there is some natural pattern to that.

It's absolutely not in my interest to believe that. I can think of plenty of alternative models that would be.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't know how you developed this paraphilia, but I think the how is irrelevant. It matters more that you still choose to endulge it despite that you supposedly understand why it's problematic. I think that claiming you were born this way it's a conforting lie that you tell yourself. This way you cannot be held risponsible for your sexual desires and be asked to do something about it. Telling yourself that women are naturally sumissive and naturally attracted to dominant men is also self-serving because it affirms your ideas about men and women. It allows you to see yourself as a victim: if only women were interested in men like you, your sexual life surely would be more satisfactory. It also allows you that avoid thinking in the uncomfortable possibility that many women may not be attracted to you not because you're sumissive, but because they may be put off about you getting off of a woman's caricature and/or about the idea of BDSM in general.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

I don't know how you developed this paraphilia, but I think the how is irrelevant.

The hows and whys of sex, gender and "deviancy" are intellectually fascinating on their own.

The reasons are also important if you explicitly want to suppress some.

If enjoying bad internet porn was a thing that made crossdressers then suppressing then it would create less crossdressers. But for me personally that was not the case. I don't see it being true in a wider sense either.

If it was something I was doing in my life I'd stop it because I wouldn't chose this identity. But I have to get on with life.

It matters more that you still choose to endulge it despite that you supposedly understand why it's problematic.

What is the problem to wider society exactly?

You think people are wandering around an alternative bar thinking "Well I was all for gender equality until saw a man in a dress with a woman that looks sexually dominant."

If there is a wider trigger in society it is not from crossdressers who are not significant figures in popular culture.

Regarding the sexualization of power. I think it's something society needs to reconcile itself with because it's so prevalent and common. It's taken for granted and we'd be better off recognising it and coping with it. That does not mean accepting every form of it.

I think that claiming you were born this way it's a conforting lie that you tell yourself.

Comforting? Comforting that I can't do anything about something I'd prefer not to be? More like accepting reality. Not being delusional.

This way you cannot be held risponsible for your sexual desires and be asked to do something about it.

What does being held responsible for liking crossdressing and enjoying sexually passionate aggressive women mean?

What does doing something about it mean? Corrective therapy to "man up" ?

Promotion of masculinity? Suppression of ideas of dominant women? Support for sexual gender norms?

Telling yourself that women are naturally sumissive and naturally attracted to dominant men is also self-serving because it affirms your ideas about men and women.

How on Earth does that make sense? Why would I be pleased that straight women are more likely to be attracted masculine dominant men?

It allows you to see yourself as a victim: if only women were interested in men like you, your sexual life surely would be more satisfactory.

There are women that find it attractive, erotic and pleasing. They are just naturally rarer. They like to express their sexual desire in a very aggressive manner. It's not abuse it's erotic play.

The last thing the women who find crossdressers attractive are concerned about is it's putting a crossdresser in the mood.

It also allows you that avoid thinking in the uncomfortable possibility that many women may not be attracted to you not because you're sumissive, but because they may be put off about you getting off of a woman's caricature and/or about the idea of BDSM in general.

BDSM? Have you checked what erotic lit straight women enjoy? They love that fantasy world. Have you checked the social science reports on sexual fantasy and bedroom activities and porn use? I know gc will say they are being forced to enjoy it by the system but I see it as so common I can't deny their agency. This does not mean I think those fanatsies should rule their lives.

So the erotica consumed, the science reports and my personal experience to me all point to straight women enjoying that kind of thing. Don't shoot the messenger.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

The how and why someone developes this paraphilia would be relevant if we were talking about how to prevent it or treat it, but I wasn't talking about that. Instead, I was challenging the idea that there was no choice involved in what you do. And I stand by what I said, you could choose differently, but it's easier for you pretend your inclinations are completely natural and nothing can or should be done about it. It's easier for you to just keep making excuses about how men are naturally dominant and women are naturally sumissive. You have no real interest on what women may think about and you want to naturalise abuse by using euphemisms like "erotic play". To be honest, I have no idea why you come here to discuss about this stuff if you're so conviced that you know far better what women want than we do. Funny how you said nothing about what we said in the thread about sex stereotypes in the bedroom.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

I would think you are wanting to prevent it but don't seem to be interested in any understanding that might help that.

You want a man not to be submissive in order to prove that straight women are on average not attracted to dominant men?

Or the other trait.

You want a man not express femininity in order to prove that straight women are on average not attracted to masculinity?

Why can't you say yes they are attracted to those things, because of society, that a man breaking those norms is a good thing. You'd say it's because I am demonstrating a connection between dominance and masculinity. But I don't think society is taking lessons from crossdressers, mildly dominant or submissive. At all.

You have no real interest on what women may think about and you want to naturalise abuse by using euphemisms like "erotic play".

Of course I have an interest.

To be honest, I have no idea why you come here to discuss about this stuff if you're so conviced that you know far better what women want than we do.

Well you're convinced of your ideas too right? It's enjoyable to chat about this.

Funny how you said nothing about what we said in the thread about sex stereotypes in the bedroom.

I commented there. I'm commenting here.

I'll respond there.