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[–]penelopekitty 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Nobody is going to know what is happening in your bedroom unless you tell them. Most of us don't care and can't be bothered to police you. I think you are setting up a straw man and sowing division for no reason.

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

I'm asking a question. How is it sowing division? I didn't put this on Ovarit because debates are generally not welcome there.

Are you denying that there are radical feminists who police other women?

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

What's to "debate"? A person's limits are that: limits. People "police" each other all the time. Every topic in this sub is about policing people's vocabularies, the meanings of words, their behaviors, everything: "policing" them by putting boundaries on them or trying to tear the boundaries down.

[–]worried19[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

I guess whether or not people should lose their "radical feminist card" for engaging in certain behaviors.

Is that something other GC women believe? Is it something they feel strongly about on a personal level?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

I dislike the idea of purity levels. It’s too black and white and feeds into the same attack-and-virtue-signal cycle we see in qt groups.

There is no card to lose. It’s not like someone who likes lingerie or handcuffs in their bedroom suddenly becomes unfeminist and stops recognising the issues raised by the radfem community.

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Up to a point. For me the line is crossed when they try to promote or defend harmful, misogynistic things in a radical feminist space. If it's strictly in their personal lives, I'll still disagree with it, but I don't think it cancels out their opinions on other matters.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But if that’s what they’re trying to promote, are they even (“radical”) feminists at all?

[–]worried19[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's a good question. On a gut level, I don't consider women who happily participate in sexualized violence to be feminists, but I'm not advocating kicking them out of radical feminist spaces as long as they're not trying to defend it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Well, yea..doing the exact opposite of what radical feminism aims for is clearly not a radfem act and probably isn’t done by radfem women.

But if we start picking apart our own and buying into this-is-or-isn’t mentality, we make an ouroboros.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

You'd be surprised. I keep running into kink defenders on Ovarit even though it's explicitly against the rules.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Defenders of personally engaging in things deemed ‘kinky’ or defenders of pornography, public displays of fetishes, or exposing children to it?

Are they in support of adults doing what they want in their own bedrooms, or are they saying that only fans is empowering?

I don’t see how this makes the card holder stuff a good way to look at anything.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Defending kink like proper liberal feminists would, talking about it not being harmful, not misogynistic, that it can happen in a loving relationship, that the "sub has all the power" and other junk arguments.

I have not seen radical feminists try to argue it should be public or in front of children, thank God, but that's setting the bar pretty low.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Are you charged with issuing those cards? What were the terms when you issued them? Your last two questions, and this whole subject. seems like an attempt to find a way around other people's limits, like a bad cartoon character from the 40s trying to get at a fresh baked pie cooling on a window sill.

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, this is a debate sub. I'm asking what other GC feminists personally feel. If you don't want to answer, you don't have to.

I put "radical feminist card" in quotes. What do you mean trying to find a way around people's limits? I don't get where you're coming from at all.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The title of the topic is not what other GC feminists feel, but what the limits should be. You are asking for a broad declaration when it must be and can only be a reflection of the individual's experiences and the sense they make out of the role 'erotic consumption and sexual behavior' play in the person's life and relationships and as they see it in society. I think in general we've taken too far the idea that "we" (any "we" there is) are some cohesive group with the same ideas and motivations and goals and needs and desires and experiences that can then draw up guidelines we can all agree to follow. The past decade or two has been one massive erasing of the fact that we are all individuals. I think it has left us where we're now easily manipulated as masses of "wes" by centralized authoritarians that ultimately really just despise us all.

I apologize, because I thought you were coming from a disingenuous place and were like a member of team QT trying to find ways to divide the rather loose GC community or to undermine the GC position by focusing on extreme outliers.

My best answer is that there are hurt people out there and they express their pain in sometimes over-reaching ways and by imposing their caution and their defense mechanisms on others. The idea of berating a woman for dating a guy who views porn or who has viewed porn is obviously unrealistic. There simply would not be that many of those guys to go around.

An honest and open discussion about it between the couple might be rare, and very tough, and probably long. The benefit could be amazing though. But, who really is open to that kind of transparency and scrutiny and all that, without the reflexive "well what about this other thing you do" getting in the way?

But women who are looking to kick out less strident women are probably acting out their own defense mechanisms, OR we're talking about fake accounts who are trying to divide people and push the most black and white world view to cause discord. There is so much of the latter, creating more homogeneous "wes" to categorize and manipulate, that we have to start accounting for it in everything. Minus that very real group of sock puppets, those were express it genuinely need healing.

The guys who are looking at porn have to understand it in at least two contexts. First being the obvious exploitation and damage that is going, both the seen and unseen, and both in the actual porn as well as in the industry that is not seen, but before the women even agree to get into porn. (and after). The other context is the inclination to get off on porn which has many contributing factors. The idea that we're just naturally supposed be masturbating should be reexamined. I doubt the dopamine addiction (I think that is what it is) was understood back when psychologists were pushing back against "it's a sin, you'll go blind and grow hair on your palms" (though, going blind might be an excellent symbolic representation of it) and no one listening to psychologists back then had any idea just how bad psych was with publish bad studies and doing bad work and the whole crisis of reproducibility it has.

The utility of using porn towards that end can not be separated from what is essentially the sexual or relationship propaganda that porn delivers along with the 'eye candy' during what I guess is the firing of mirror neurons in the process. Going back to the surprising and probably unintentional symbolism in "it will make you go blind", these lies in that propaganda blind the guy to what is real in himself and in women and in the woman in his life if he has one. I don't expect those GC women who are also victims of men, who then develop such strong defense mechanisms, to see porn that way nor to explain to guys why it's bad like a grown up talking to a kid. I don't expect many people to have thought about it deeply enough, and I doubt I have either.

Sorry for misconstruing your motivations, and I offer up the above words as an apology. I hope you like words in salad form!