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[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (36 children)

This is interesting. You don't directly answer my questions. I asked "who" and I asked "what". You don't say who, and you don't say what they say. It is entirely possible, from what you typed, that no one is doing this to you. Perhaps you are doing it to yourself.

But why is that so vile? Half the people in the world are men. For you to think that's vile, that really is saying more about you than you might realize. And, what it is saying can't be good.

What's going on CMOV2? Are you OK? I'm really asking. I might seem like I'm breaking your chops, and I may come off as uncaring, but would not want to leave this unaddressed. I'm not uncaring, and on occasion I can be thoughtful. Let's figure this out, if you want. Seeing the word "man" and thinking it vile can't be good.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (35 children)

Basically everyone does. I don’t pass so people treat me like shit. I get called a man constantly even thought it is impossible not to know I am a trans woman on sight.

Men are monsters. I don’t want to be associated with them. They are bad.

Calling me that is a heinous insult. There are only a few things I would be more insulted to be called.

No I’m not okay. I’ve said as much. The world treats me like a freak. Why would I be okay?

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

Do you think the word man as used in general conversation is an insult, or is it that as applied to you that you feel it to be insulting? Maybe insult is not the right word. Insults carry intention, either to anger or put down or to needle someone.

Men simply are not monsters. Some are. Some women are. Some pet cats are monstrous. Some aren't. You can not realistically see all men as monsters unless something else, within you, is going on.

Why do you think people call you a man? As you say, you don't pass. So, would you say that people see you as you physically are? If, as GC people contend, man and woman refer to the two and only to specific body types by which our species reproduces itself then it must be reasonable for other people who do not see your sense of your gender to see you as and refer to you as what they do see. You have to accept that it is not rational to expect people to not see you as you physically are and to view the world as it has always been viewed. You should strive to be rational about the way the world reacts to you, because I suspect the world is being rational about it. If the world is having an irrational demand made on it, it will react badly. (this is as much true about the environment or about oppressive governments as it is about our social world)

I think you have to ask yourself a question: how has reacting to the way the world sees and addresses you been working out for you? I can't imagine taking some inner aspect of myself and demanding people see that, when instead they see a guy who shows up late or clearly fakes his way through some situations, or any of the many things I do in my own life.

You really have to accept yourself as you are. That includes, and I would argue primarily is: 1) your physical self which really only changes through exercise, or maturing and aging, or through major injuries, or through physical alterations like tattoos or piercings or surgeries; 2) your emotional state; 2.5) your mental state; and 3) the state of your health. I have health problems I can, to my detriment, ignore. When I acknowledge them and live like I should in dealing with them, I feel much better and get more done. So much so, I can pretend I don't have to do all the things I have to do, and I'm all ill feeling again.

The thing is, the only thing you have power over is yourself. You can most easily change your mental and emotional state, this can be done very easily. There are so many ways, some very ancient, some very new. None work though if you are unable or unwilling to accept yourself as you are. You may start down the path of one of these ways, you may find ways to take steps to become "okay", how far you go along that path is up to you though. You may find things about yourself you are unwilling to deal with or correct, some "confessions" to yourself and perhaps only to yourself that you are unwilling to make. You will be stuck there. But, regardless of which way you might choose if you were to choose one of these ways forward, you will find the path to being OK there and not waiting for the world to behave as you wish. I've seen too many people start looking for ill-intentions or insincerity when the world does give them what they want-- because the root of the problem is not outside the self.

The thing we can most easily change is ourselves in terms of our inner self and our outlook and how we interface with the world. We can not change the world around us. Take Ghandi for example. He certainly changed the world a lot, yes? He freed India from England. The divisions in India are still very extreme, farmers committing suicides, religious tensions within, religious and political tensions 'without' with Pakistan and China. So many things that one could say the more things change the more they stay the same.

None of us here on SaidIt can change the world like that. But we as individuals can change ourselves and our mental state and our outlook. It is maybe the most important aspect of humanity, that our minds are malleable and our brain has a kind of elasticity and we can rewire it to fit our needs. We should do that, but we should not rewire it to fit our desires.

Accept your physical reality, accept your self exactly as you are. You have great qualities and things that need to be worked on, like everyone else including men and including women. Turn off and tune out all the BS around you. Don't put expectations on others, don't even put them on yourself. Drop all the judgement you have about all these ideas, men or women or yourself or monsters or anything.

Please try this: Just start with a single most basic, simple, and observable fact about your self and accept it. ("I grew up in (name of city/town)" or "I have curly/straight/wavy/sparse(whatever it is) hair" really something simple and bland) Just try being at peace with that thought, like your mind were a blank slate. Anything a thought wanders into your head, as they always always always do, do not be judgmental or frustrated, do not agree or disagree with the thought or the hundred of them before you realize they are flooding your mind, just erase them and be at peace like your mind were a blank slate again and go back to that thought (I find it easier to have a thought, like a cheaper version of a mantra, than to really try to think of nothing). The thought should not even be a thought but just a set of syllables in your mind being repeated. If this gets going, slow them down. Breath evenly. The breath can go with the thought, the can be in phase with each other. Do this regularly throughout the day for short periods of time. A minute, 8 times a day. Maybe more of either eventually. Eat when you are hungry, stop when your hunger is gone (not when you are done eating), sleep when you are tired, get up when you get up even if the alarm clock says you have another hour or whatever it tells you. Step back when angry, or insulted or insecure or attacked emotionally, and breath. Let it all go. What ever the problem is, it can not be your focus until you are OK on a regular basis. You might want to drive across country, but you car has to be capable of making the trip. In that analogy you're being OK is making sure the car can handle the trip.

Please try this for like a month. If you don't exercise, start something simple-- not even a "workout", just do something simple. Let me know how it goes, please. You might say "I don't want to do that, I don't want that, I don't want any of that". But, life is not about what we want unless we're very rich and very spoiled, and I would argue that's not life anyway. We're given pictures of fake lives and fake ideas handed down to us by people with no better idea than anyone else. This is where a lot of our wrong expectations come from. All we are are creatures that must eat, breath, sleep, clean ourselves, move around physically, be sheltered from harsh weather, and when those are met and when we are OK we can be social and perhaps even loved somehow within our actual communities and perhaps in life.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (33 children)

Do you think the word man as used in general conversation is an insult, or is it that as applied to you that you feel it to be insulting?

As directed at trans women.

Men simply are not monsters. Some are. Some women are. Some pet cats are monstrous. Some aren't. You can not realistically see all men as monsters unless something else, within you, is going on.

You are welcome to disagree but I stand by what I said.

Why do you think people call you a man? As you say, you don't pass. So, would you say that people see you as you physically are?

Because they don’t like trans people. I have obvious features as the result of hormones and unambiguously signal feminine but still look male. It is impossible to not know I am trans by looking. Literally anyone can tell I’m a trans woman by looking. The choice to call me a man over neutral address or just ignoring me is meant to hurt.

I think you have to ask yourself a question: how has reacting to the way the world sees and addresses you been working out for you?

I don’t react. At least not usually. I’ve long stopped correcting people. Sometimes it will send me into a depression spiral but I never say anything when someone misgenders me.

You really have to accept yourself as you are. That includes, and I would argue primarily is: 1) your physical self which really only changes through exercise, or maturing and aging, or through major injuries, or through physical alterations like tattoos or piercings or surgeries; 2) your emotional state; 2.5) your mental state; and 3) the state of your health. I have health problems I can, to my detriment, ignore. When I acknowledge them and live like I should in dealing with them, I feel much better and get more done. So much so, I can pretend I don't have to do all the things I have to do, and I'm all ill feeling again.

That’s why I transitioned. The choice was become pariah or kill myself. So I transitioned. I’m a trans woman. I just want to not be treated like a man.

The thing is, the only thing you have power over is yourself. You can most easily change your mental and emotional state, this can be done very easily.

No. It can’t. Like again you can disagree but at best it’s extremely difficult to effect your emotional state actively.

Accept yourself as you are

I’m an ugly trans woman. I accept that. I just get tired of being treated like a freak or a man.

You have great qualities

No I really don’t.

I mediate daily and I exercise for multiple hours 6 days a week. I know exactly who I am. I made the choice to be treated like a freak rather than die. It is what it is. I can’t live a decent life but at least I’m alive.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

As directed at trans women.

When it is directed at you, the word man is what were talking about here, it is not directed at trans women but you and only you. You gain nothing by hearing a word directed at you and then confusing it with being directed at a whole category of people. You already say you do not pass, people saying what they see is not people insulting anyone. Your ego and perhaps certain defense mechanisms make you hear it that way, perhaps to recoil away and to avoid possible problems you might expect to happen when you hear that word applied to you. Learn to hear when it is not an insult and you will be better able to deal with the times when it is meant as an insult. It's basic self-defense, you should only react to actual attacks, not things that miss wildly or are not even attacks. Your perception is clearly off here.

I stand by what I said.

Am I being a monster to you? Am I a monster? What have I done here that you feel is monstrous? I'm a man, half the world is men. If we were monsters, we'd be extinct.

I don’t react.

You obviously react. You may not confront them, but you this whole set of comments is because you are reacting. Spiraling into depression is reacting. It's not a reasonable reaction.

The choice was become pariah or kill myself. ... I just want to not be treated like a man.

I don't understand what you mean by "become pariah"; and seriously: don't kill yourself. Straighten out your mind, with some kind of help if it is that bad. You can not control how people treat you, this is true not just for trans people but anyone. Some people choose to control who they are around, you see this commonly with people who are like "I just choose to not associate with negative people" but too often that is shutting out people in need and people who are real friends in favor of superficially nice people. I suspect transition was not the solution you hoped it was, because people still see you as they see you, and I suspect they see very real aspects of yourself that you would want yourself and them to deny. That is not healthy for you.

it’s extremely difficult to effect your emotional state actively.

It is extremely difficult to do all things at once, impossible actually. What I'm suggesting is not extremely difficult at all. It is, however, gradual. The person you are trying to be, the person you see as your best self right now, will resist even considering it. But that is because your ego and all your insecurities are wrapped up in that person you see as your best self.

I don't know if what I'm suggesting counts as "actively" anyway, if anything I could imagine a version of "actively" as actively getting in the way of it. What I'm suggesting is get you and your ego and your insecurities and your problems out of your own way.

I've always felt I'm ugly too, and misshapen. and my acne never really went away. Everyone feels these things, even the hottest women on the planet. It's a horrible thing we humans do to ourselves in that regard.

As for the rest, you sound like you chose to throw a pity-party and you think that is exactly who you are. You are who you are, and you only know half of who you are. Everyone around you knows the other half. They are no more wrong than you and they are no more right than you. You are the one treating yourself like a freak. Reread what you typed here. It is you, self-hating you, berating you, and then saying it is this or death. I say it is not true. I do think your daily meditation must be total shit, there is no way you can type this this about yourself if it were otherwise. Stop trying, maybe the "actively" part is the problem. Drop your bullshit, the good shit and the bad shit, it's all bullshit anyway, and recognize when an emotion jumps out at you. I stand by my recommendations to you and if those are a step back from your routine now, then I suspect it is better. As I asked early, when I asked "how's it working out for you", clearly its not. Saying it was this or suicide should not be an acceptable answer to you or anyone around. You can be and do better, and it has nothing to do with out others see you or treat you or how they fail to meet your hopes or expectations.

You have good qualities, I don't know who you are or anything but you are obviously articulate and can make words say what you want them to say. You're good at berating yourself. You're good at generalizing about men. Berating yourself is like the skill of recognizing your own weaknesses but without the ability to recognize the steps to improvement or to recognize if the weakness is minor or major, and clearly you are without the ability to recognize the qualities that balance those. Generalizing in the way you do sounds to me like the quality of being very adverse to risk and recognizing the potential for patterns of behavior at the earliest indication. These are like being overly sensitive. It is like having those warning lights on cars when something is near the car you're driving. We don't react every time the thing goes off, we make note of it unless it really is a danger. You have to recognize that difference and you will not with out a lot of calming the hell down and losing the judgmental aspects of how you assess both yourself and those around. Practice non-judgement. You have to do that before you can get to address your self-loathing. Since your meditation does not address this, your meditation is shit. You are trying actively, and that is not what you should be doing.

I promise you that you can feel better than you do, and it has nothing to do with anyone around you. It has everything to do with dropping the manner in which you judge yourself and others. Tune others out. They are a distraction. Stop judging your self and stop reacting, emotionally or any way, to others. What ever you are doing 6 days a week, it ain't working. You know this. The part of you that resists is like a fear of failure or just a self loathing. It does not matter what it is. Stop judging yourself and others. Clear your mind of this bs. You are OK except when you're not, and you really are the one preventing yourself from being OK. This last response really has me convinced of this.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (31 children)

When it is directed at you, the word man is what were talking about here, it is not directed at trans women but you and only you.

No when directed at any trans woman, it’s an insult. Not just me. Any of us. It’s a choice to say something knowingly hurtful. At best it’s callous realistically it is an attack.

Am I being a monster to you? Am I a monster? What have I done here that you feel is monstrous? I'm a man, half the world is men. If we were monsters, we'd be extinct.

If you are a man then yes, I think you are a monster. Sorry if you find that hurtful, and you can believe differently but that’s what I believe. As to the last part, no one said you were self destructive or stupid.

I don't understand what you mean by "become pariah", and don't kill yourself.

I won’t, that was the point of transition. To stop that. And what I mean is I knew I would never pass and that nonpassable trans women are treated as non people by most of society. I knew what I was in for.

I’m depressed because I am treated like a freak and because I have an accurate picture of my life. Transition was a big improvement in my mental health. And if trans people weren’t treated like freaks, I think I would be quite happy.

With all due respect you don’t know anything about my meditation practice. It’s not going to cure depression but it isn’t “shit”.

What ever you are doing 6 days a week, it ain't working.

Quite the opposite. I’m never happier than event I am in a workout honestly. It’s peaceful and beautiful to simply be. And to actually feel like I am doing something I am good at. And no one bothers me. I just get to exist.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry if you find that hurtful, and you can believe differently but that’s what I believe

The astounding hypocrisy. You can call someone a monster and they have to just accept it but if we call males men we are awful and cruel and have to change how we think and speak. Un-fuckin-believable.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 8 fun1 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

At least I said sorry if he found it hurtful, which he didn’t.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, not only hypocritical but defensive of the hypocrisy. What a surprise.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

Next time don't call fellow users monster or similar things, wheter you apologize for it or not.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (25 children)

I’m not going to stop calling men monsters until they stop being , as a group, monsters

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Expect such comments of yours to be deleted from now on then. And better quit with the baseless accussations that we want to harm you, too.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

So you get to freely insult people based on your feelings but us doing that is an attack borne out of hatred.

You can think something factually incorrect and judge an entire group based on that, but we are literally violently harming all transwomen everywhere if we use a commonly understood and not personally biased definition of men to refer to them.

How do you justify yourself?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (20 children)

I’m not advocating harm to men you are advocating harm to trans women. It isn’t the same. Not to mention men are at the pinnacle of the social hierarchy, trans women are at the bottom.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your choice to hear a word directed at you as being directed at an entire group of people is a choice to turn every non-event into a ground-shaking drama. It goes for you exactly as one would expect.

I'm absolutely not hurt at all by you calling me a monster. It's like part of your overly active defense mechanism.

As for the rest, I can only see what I see you type here. If this is where you want to be, then rock on. But you worrying about how trans people are treated, and then assuming you'd be happy if only that were different: it obviously isn't true. It really is obvious.

Good luck. If you want the last word, go for it, but please cut out the whiny self-loathing stuff because it is ringing hollower and hollower with each comment.