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[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Erik Erikson used the term" identity" in discussing how humans developed a sense of self in 1959, but despite this the term "identity" was still not widely adopted or commonly used in the fields of child development, psychiatry, psychology etc until very recently. In the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, the terms used were "sense of self," "self concept," "self image" or just plain "self."

Back then, the term "identity crisis" was used to describe the emotional trouble some people experienced in middle-age or after a major life disruption, such as divorce, the death of a partner or loved one, losing a long-held job, becoming disabled and so on. But generally speaking, when the term "identity" was used back then, it was used in a political context: African American identity, Arab identity, Jewish identity and so on.

When the concept of the "right to self-identify" first emerged, it was in the context of colonialism & referred to peoples, eg populations, not to individuals. The right to self-identify meant that "peoples" - particularly minority, indigenous, oppressed peoples who had been subject to colonization - were the ones who should decide what to name themselves & their nations/lands, & it was population groups themselves - not their colonial powers, overlords or outsiders - who should decide who gets included in their group & who doesn't.

So, for example, the "right to self identify" meant the right of the people of the African countries known as Northern and Southern Rhodesia under British colonialism to rename their nations Zambia and Zimbabwe, & the right of the citizens of the country once known as Upper Volta to give it a new name, Burkina Faso, and to call themselves Burkinabé or Burkinabè.

In the US and Canada, the right to "self identify" meant the right of native populations to name their themselves, their nations & lands and to decide who has the right to be called "Native Americans" or "First Nations" and to claim membership in specific tribes/nations. It's because Elizabeth Warren ignored all this that her claim to be part Cherokee & her misguided attempt to prove it by using a DNA test backfired so spectacularly.

Similarly, in the US, "the right to self identify" meant it was up to black-skinned Americans of African heritage - not Americans of other races & ancestry - to decide whether what to call themselves & how they wanted others to refer to them. Hence, "Negro" and "colored people" went out of use and terms such as "African Americans, Black Americans, blacks, people of color" and "American Descendants of Slaves" came into use.

What the gender identity ideologues have done is take - appropriate, borrow, steal - the idea that populations & nations should have the right to self determination of group identity for political reasons in a political context and applied it to individuals for personal & sexual reasons in the realm of interpersonal & societal relations.

Back to "gender identity." I see "gender identity" the way it's commonly used today as meaning what we used to call "the ideal self" or the "should-be self." The theory is that we all have two kinds of self-concepts - the one that we think represents who/what we actually are, & the one that represents who/what we desire to be or feel we should be. When there's too big a gap between our idea of who/what/how we actually are in reality & our idea of who/what/how we ideally ought to be or wish we could be - or we mix up or fail to make a sufficient distinction between our our ideal self & our actual self - we end up with low self-esteem & a distorted, unstable self-image.

This IMO is why people's "gender identities" tend to be so fragile - they are inherently unstable, confused & distorted, not based on reality. For people whose "gender identity" that of the opposite sex (as opposed to being non-binary), the gap between the real self & the ideal, wished-for self is simply too big - & its impossible to bridge. As a result, people with opposite-sex "gender identities" tend to have low self-esteem, to be very anxious about their "identities," vigilant about asserting & protecting their "identities," preoccupied with how others perceive them, & in constant need to have their "gender identities" "validated" by others to stave off their own insecurities.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This is such an amazing explanation! I guess, thinking of your last couple paragraphs especially, wouldn’t at least some trans people actually be well-adjusted in their identities because there wouldn’t be a big gap between a “real self” and reality? It seems like if someone saw themselves a transsexual woman/man rather than a biological one maybe they wouldn’t feel that there was a gap, or people who are generally regarded as the opposite sex might not feel like there is a big gap either. It doesn’t mean anyone owes anyone treating them any particular way, but I felt like when I read it at least some trans people would have stable and secure identities (assuming all trans people have gender identities, which I’m not so sure about!).

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

wouldn’t at least some trans people actually be well-adjusted in their identities because there wouldn’t be a big gap between a “real self” and reality?

I'm confused coz I was talking about a gap between the real self (who/how you really think you are) & the ideal self (who/how you wish you were or feel you should be). It's the old is/ought dilemma. (BTW, the real self is not necessarily the entirely realistic self, either. Most of us have some distortions in our self-images. Males, for example, tend to see themselves as better looking & smarter than they are, whereas women do the opposite.)

It seems like if someone saw themselves a transsexual woman/man rather than a biological one maybe they wouldn’t feel that there was a gap,

I imagine the people who are "trans" with the healthiest sense of self are those who accept & admit their sex & acknowledge that they had mental health problems that caused them, for one reason or another, to decide to alter their appearance & behavior in order to conform the sex stereotypes associated with the opposite sex. Which sounds like what you have done.

But still as I see it, being secure in one's "identity" is different to being secure in one's sense of self. I think all this "I identify as" stuff is basically BS, especially as it's being done by kids & adolescents far younger & less mature than you.

Also, for most people adopting a trans "identity" still requires engaging in artifice & performance on a daily basis, it often includes outright lying, it requires constant monitoring of one's appearance & behavior so as to try to manage other people's impressions, & of course it necessitates embracing & hewing to rigid, regressive, constricting sex stereotypes - none of which IMHO is a solid foundation on which to base one's sense of self.

Also, doesn't it get exhausting? And, not to pry, but aren't worried about what will happen as you age? Aging really changes people's appearance & body shapes in all sorts of usually unflattering ways that make most of unhappy. Maybe being on female CSH will make a difference, but in my view it's going to be a lot harder for someone like Blaire White or Jazz Jennings to keep up the charade when Blaire & Jazz are 40 or 50. My fear is that life will just mean more & more surgical interventions & cosmetic procedures in pursuit of the unattainable.

One of the issues here is the language. I think trans-identified people of both sex es would be better off giving up the pretense that they are some new breed of women & men & think of themselves as persons of their own sex who choose to "present" themselves according to the sex stereotypes that sexist people associate with the opposite sex. Seems to me trans people put themselves in an impossible situation when they started insisting they are "trans women" & "trans men." They would have been far better off coming up with entirely new words, rather than appropriating & attempting to change the meanings of woman, man, boy, girl, male & female. Or sticking with the old term transvestite.

or people who are generally regarded as the opposite sex might not feel like there is a big gap either. It doesn’t mean anyone owes anyone treating them any particular way

The problem here is that one's sense of self is bound to be fragile & constantly shaken if it is based mainly or largely on how other people regard you (or how you think/imagine other people regard you) and how other people treat you (or again, how you think they are treating you).

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, doesn't it get exhausting? And, not to pry, but aren't worried about what will happen as you age? Aging really changes people's appearance & body shapes in all sorts of usually unflattering ways that make most of unhappy.

What do you mean by exhausting? I don’t feel like being me is automatically exhausting so I’d have to understand how you mean it.

If I didn’t pass when I got older, I guess I’d figure out what that meant. I don’t think it would happen, but I guess you never really know. I’ve lived as an adult long enough to see myself age too. Not to like totally date myself, but I feel I have some idea of what 40 will be like from where I am now. As far as detransitioning or getting surgeries, it’s hard for me to imagine either of those things would happen. Assuming I wanted to detransition/retransition (which I don’t, but I don’t really feel like it’s an option), I’d still have to think about my family. I’m married and we’re going to have a child (adopted), none of these things (including getting a bunch of surgeries, which I honestly don’t want) are my decision to make alone and I just don’t know how they would fit into our lives. I like our lives now. Maybe my body could change in an unexpected way or my voice could drop an octave or something, but I really try to take care of myself and hopefully I’ll age alright. I’m just not sure how to answer that.