Identity

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Idk how to word it, but I guess I mean, even if a trans person does have a secure and stable sense of identity, it’s still not really identifying as or with females/being female or males/being male.

Yeah, maybe there is still some dissonance, but I feel like it could be really small, not enough to threaten their identity, if someone existed in that role enough (so small they could even forget about it).

If a trans person is identifying as a “woman” even a “transsexual woman” I think it’s still off base

If the individual person had like internalized another definition that meant transsexual woman was just a type of woman, they might feel fine. It might not be true, but it wouldn’t matter for how they felt.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Dissonance was the perfect word thank you! Not having the right word was bothering me so much lol

I get what you’re saying. I guess I’m thinking more from a hyper GC mentality. I still find the idea of using “woman” as any type of identity offensive.

I guess my point is just that any identity that includes “woman” is still going to be wrong imo if the person claiming the identity is male. I just think even if someone calls it identifying as a woman or a transsexual woman, it’s still not accurate. They are still identifying with what they associate womanhood or “woman-ness” to be, rather than actual womanhood. So it’s not very different to me.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Gotcha! I guess I was thinking more about what would help the person’s identity be stable. Even wrong beliefs might help someone cope, but it’s still probably not the best and, in most cases, won’t work when it meets reality.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yes, you've put your finger on the problem exactly. A person can have a stable "identity" based on false beliefs - such as that a transsexual male or a male of altered appearance & hormone profile is "a type of woman." But as you say, in most cases, it won't work when it meets reality. Since reality is all around us & tends to be hard to avoid, this means the supposedly stable "identity" really ends up not being very stable after all.

I imagine maintaining a personal "identity" based on an inherently false belief - "as a male who has done XYZ, I've now become a woman" or "any male who identifies as a woman is a woman" - must be very draining. Coz it would seem to require constantly having to filter out reality & defending oneself against basic facts. Like the dictionary definition of woman, the meaning of female, & the realities of girls & women's lives.

Seems to me that a principal reason many trans-identified people are able to hold so firmly to, & be so assertive of, their opposite-sex "identities" is because they suffer from narcissistic personality disorder or other cluster B disorders, or at the very least have strongly pronounced narcissistic traits.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

reality

You reminded me incels (they weren't calling like that back then) from CiS region decade ago. Among them around 10 years ago there was popular idea to "become crazy on purpose". Someone prominent in their movement went to budhist school and found there this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulpa

Idea was to imagine "perfect woman who loves you near you all the time and will never say no to anything", so they were taking drugs, different budhist meditations and techniques to become crazy and all the time see that woman nearby them, so now "they have girlfriend". I saw few men really going crazy from this and ended up permanently in psychiatric asylum.

Some men would go so far to fulfill their sexual desires, that consciously damage their brain and sanity.