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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I feel like it doesn’t make sense to say it isn’t real. Just because something may only exist in a society or has a societal part mean it isn’t real. If you applied the same standard you are trying to apply to gender dysphoria, you’d throw out all sorts of mental illnesses. Very few can be easily located in the brain I don’t think. As u/loveSloane said, it’s a mental condition that exists. How can it exist and not be real?

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

How can it exist and not be real?


Hysteria was "real" and was written about and diagnosed and treated . . . until we had a far better science-to-supposition ratio going and diagnostics improved. Now we know there are a lot of distinct physiological and psychological issues that present as (what used to be called) "hysteria," and none of them have to do with wandering wombs or whatever else.

Depression is also way more complex than presented, and it may or may not be genetic. Clinical depression can be triggered by genetics, stress, pain, trauma, low light exposure, severe nutritional deficiencies, endocrine and autonomic dysregulation, reactions to nonpsychiatric meds, physical illness, and a whole buncha stuff.

Diagnosing relies on signs and symptoms. Sometimes it reveals an easily identifiable problem (like an easily detected infection). Sometimes it can only describe a syndrome that shows up in a number of people, or a pronounced dysfunction whose causes we don't yet understand (like GD). In no way does that mean that the dysfunction isn't real.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (14 children)

'It may or may not be genetic.'

This is an anti-scientific claim. Depression has long been understood to be virtually entirely genetic.

What kind of mental illness is environmentally produced and sustained? If it is, it's not a mental illness, since there's nothing biological about it.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Depression is not exclusively genetic. Many illnesses are multifactorial. These are well-established understandings.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (12 children)

'Research shows that the hippocampus is smaller in some depressed people. For example, in one fMRI study published in The Journal of Neuroscience, investigators studied 24 women who had a history of depression. On average, the hippocampus was 9% to 13% smaller in depressed women compared with those who were not depressed. The more bouts of depression a woman had, the smaller the hippocampus.'

Bruh, your own study seems to disprove what you've been saying (though, I must admit, the sample size was pretty small, unfortunately). Additionally, the article you referenced literally showed which exact areas of the brain were affected by depression, meaning that it can, accurately, be neurologically examined.

[–]Juniperius 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Brains are plastic. They change in function, interconnectivity, and size of various areas in response to the environment and habits of the person. If the hippocampus is smaller in depressed people, it could just as easily be an effect of depression, rather than a cause. Furthermore, a) fMRI studies are stupid, they can find what appears to be brain activity in a dead fish, b) 24 study participants is insufficient to draw any kind of conclusion and should only be used to suggest that further study might be interesting, c) one study doesn't mean anything until it has been replicated, it's only when a mass of evidence starts to build up that scientists will begin to treat the hypothesis as being strongly supported.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

In one research tram drivers all had similar brain structure.

Tram-driving is the new sex!

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

one study doesn't mean anything until it has been replicated, it's only when a mass of evidence starts to build up that scientists will begin to treat the hypothesis as being strongly supported.

Hugely important point. Cochrane reviews and meta-analyses are our friends.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

'If the hippocampus is smaller in depressed people, it could just as easily be an effect of depression, rather than a cause.'

This would still mean depression is genetic, or else this brain area would not be affected. Also, it was your study, not mine, and it didn't even agree with you. It's still, even with the lackluster sample size, most likely, statistically, that is, the case that the brain is functioning differently when it comes to those with depression. Depression is persistent, what prevents happiness, and is ongoing and continuous, unlike mere sadness. Depression is genetic because if it's not, there's no such thing as depression. What you're referring to, then, is just sadness. Depression should be understood as a disease.

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You should probably go look up the word "genetic" before you try to have this conversation.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I know what genetic means. I know what biology is. Depression is genetic, or else what's being referred to as depression is just intense sadness, or long lasting waves of sadness.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, you crearly don't. If you want to continue this conversation, I suggest you learn more about genetics, neuroplasticity and how they work. Otherwise, you can expect to keep being corrected.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Suggest you read the entire article for context and clarity on that. And feel free to address your concerns to the authors and editors at Harvard Medical School.

ETA you've formed a conclusion and are cherry-picking evidence to support it. That's backwards sciencing. Also academically dishonest.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

Your comment isn't a helpful comment. It's not adding anything to anything. I would advise at least attempting to rebut any of what I've stated.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The entire Harvard article supports my assertions, which I've already articulated. I stand firmly by my conclusion-to-proof assessment of your reasoning. Please take your trolling elsewhere.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again, you've made no argument. You claim I'm trolling, while also refusing to engage with any of my ideas. Again, the article you yourself cited does not agree with your beliefs.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

What sort of mental illnesses can't be located in the brain? I mean, you could name some. But, I believe they're either found within a person's neurology, or, they're not mental illnesses at all. I don't believe something should be called an 'illness' unless there exists some sort of medical basis to it.

As stated, while doctors and general physicians might sometimes refer to gender dysphoria diagnoses as 'medical,' there is never the claim from them that a diagnosis involves looking at, A, neurology, or, B, discovering some type of gene, or genetic arrangement, which testifies to the existence of dysphoria. So, in a sense, it's never claimed to be a scientific process. Gender dysphoria doesn't exist, is my claim, in the identical sense to how virginity doesn't exist. I've already explained this part.

[–]Juniperius 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In general, if something can be found in the brain, clinicians will stop calling it a mental illness and start calling it a neurological disorder or something else.

[–]SexualityCritical[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, because what you're referring to than is not a mental illness at all. What do you think 'illness' means?

'A mental illness is a disorder diagnosed by a medical professional that significantly interferes with an individual's cognitive, emotional or social abilities.'

It can only ever refer to something which is genetic, either entirely or almost entirely. A mental illness is a disorder, and it is always neurological.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nearly all of them! If we could fine something wrong in the body it likely wouldn’t be considered a mental disorder. Anorexia nervosa for instance can’t necessarily be found in the brain, but lots of people still struggle with it. It’s understood by how people behave who have it. Sometimes, we will be able to locate things in the brain that are more likely to be present in someone with a certain disorder, but it’s always a mix of social and other things. Gender dysphoria or gender identity disorder (which is what I was diagnosed with) isn’t unique in this way. And we’re finding things in the brain for that too. It doesn’t mean that we were necessarily born like this, because brains are very plastic and can change a lot, but it is another indicator that it is a real thing. I feel like the only way your position makes sense is if you just say mental illnesses aren’t real to you.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Maybe you're psychiatry critical and don't realize it? What kind of medical tests do you think are done to diagnose mental illness? You might be interested in hearing Paual Caplan describe her time on DSM committees.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That what happens when your whole healthcare system is privately owned and profit-oriented.

I have only good things to say about how my mental illnesses were treated by social healthcare (and for free) in Eastern Europe - it saved my life, as I completely lost my mind at one point. Not sure if it is because I was lucky to get to good doctors, or because in general it is good here.