Both: Are sexual stereotypes about men and women in the bedroom true?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]BiologyIsReal 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

A male cross-dresser is far from being an authority on female sexuality, and theory usually miss the point of what he is told in this sub to suit his own ideas about essentialism.

I find off-putting men who think women are a prize to win over. I don't want to be anyone's sex toy.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

A male cross-dresser is far from being an authority on female sexuality, and theory usually miss the point of what he is told in this sub to suit his own ideas about essentialism.

I find off-putting men who think women are a prize to win over. I don't want to be anyone's sex toy.

OK lets chat about it here.

Do you think straight men and women on average have the same sexuality? Similar fantasies, behaviour, pleasures?

Do you think men on average find femininity erotic? Do you think women on average find masculinity erotic?

[–]BiologyIsReal 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

As I said in the other thread, you have very black and white view of human relationships. You think men are naturally dominant and women naturally sumissive, and that abuse is just "erotic play". You think that a tiny minority of the population may prefere the opposite role, but they still conform to the idea that abuse is erotic and desirable and normal.

I don't think women are nauturally sumissive. Sumission is just a survivorship strategy, a way a aggressor more powerfull than you don't hurt you... Or at least a way you hope they don't hurt you that much. Anyone, including men, could act sumissive if the situation requires it. Like, for example, a robery done by thieves armed with fire weapons. Some people might fight back, but many won't resist and will do do as they are told. If you find yourself in a situation where you need to act this way a lot, you may come to view this behaviour as a part of you, like for instance, in slavery.

Women often find themselves in a sumissive position because men are physically stronger and because men are the ones who hold and have hold the political and economical power. I'm sure other users here could explain more eloquently and with more details than I could all the ways this works. Though, I can say the widespread use of pornography that has been happening in the last years has made a lot to naturalise abuse in the bedroom. Also pimps, pornographers or just regular abusers have been trying hard to naturalise the abuse of women by men throught the "sex positive" movement.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I suggested there might be a bimodal relationship with aggression in people. That might have a sexual element.

There is overlap in that. I don't think all of sexuality is about power at all. It is also about other things. Physical appeal, personal connection, there is also gendered aspects which are appealing to people that are not to do with power. But people are prone to erotic elements of power. On a large scale extremes will be more visible.

Is that black and white?

Do you think competitions for power are something humans are liable to do? That a sex element of that is something is humans might fall into but is something that should always be avoided?

I do think society can be better. But I think there are limits.

I don't think sexualizing masculinity means necessarily sexualizing dominance. Even if it is related it is separate.

I don't think accepting a relationship between power and sex, or sexuality and gender, means endorsing all of sex positivity, pornography, sex work and abuse.

When I debate here and say "I think straight women think x" it's because I see huge difference between what the women of gc here think and what I see in the wider world.

I don't think all the women enjoying popular erotic fiction with strong gender norms within a fantasy or enjoying mild sex games are broken women with no agency. That's taken as me endorsing extreme libertarian misogyny.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do you think women and men could choose not to be neither the sumissive or the dominant one in a relationship? I other words, do you think a relationship could not be based in power plays? Do you think someone can consent to abuse? Do you think abuse is erotic and desirable? Do you think women must accept to be dominated by men because is "natural"?

BTW, there is no "sex work", only sexual slavery. "Sex work" is a euphemism used by pimps to normalise and, eventually, legalise prostitution.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you think women and men could choose not to be neither the sumissive or the dominant one in a relationship?

Yes.

I do not think sex or relationships are entirely about erotic power relations.

I just think people are prone to eroticising power in mild or strong ways, often gendered.

It appears very common.

In other words, do you think a relationship could not be based in power plays?

Yes I think it can be based on equality or at least not driven by a strongly sex power games at all.

I think sexual attraction is based on a number of things. Physical attraction, personality but I don't think they are generally identical for men and women. I do think masculinity and femininity often play a role in sexuality. That being separate from power.

I do think non sexual power is likely always being negotiate in relationships. I don't think it's a thing that can be ignored.

Do you think someone can consent to abuse?

I find that too charged a question.

Do I think people are in abusive relationships? Yes. Do I think all consent is valid? No. People might consent to something that is wrong and illegal.

People have fantasises they do not want to come true. That does not make them bad broken people.

People have all kinds of fantasises, act out things in bedrooms without being terrible broken people.

For all that consumption of porn and erotic literature they are not broken on that level. They are in fact happy.

Do you think abuse is erotic and desirable?

I think do a lot of people find power erotic. We might think it wrong but it appears so common and a normal part of life.

It has to be carefully handled.

Do you think women must accept to be dominated by men because is "natural"?

No. Firmly not.

A tendency is not universal. An "is" is not an "ought."

I do think people need to be educated. Adults need to be aware of dangers of behaviours and be responsible caring lovers.

BTW, there is no "sex work", only sexual slavery. "Sex work" is a euphemism used by pimps to normalise and, eventually, legalise prostitution.

I recall hearing Julie Bindel on this she was saying there are women who are forced in to this activity and there are middle class women who are playing in some kind of recreation for kicks. I think there is truth in that. I don't think sex can be normalised as any other job because sex is so emotional and open to abuse. I don't think it a healthy form of relations.

I can see it's possibly therapeutic in places, maybe. I don't want to be the person telling women the can't sell sex either. But it's not something I think is mentally healthy, for everyone.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one ever cared about abuse of men by women though. That's practically encouraged.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. It's so prevalent that I've started teasing ruqqus discord members about my "reversed" nature because they find it so triggering.