Both: In light of recent events. In what context is Voyeurism and Indecent Exposure acceptable? Is there a rational justification for making an exception for males who claim to be women?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (9 children)

Being trans isn’t a religion. Dysphoria is like any other medical condition. Transition treats it. Being called a man is a deeply insulting term to me. In fact there are maybe 2 or 3 things in all the possible insults that would bother me more. But it isn’t a religious question. At most it’s a semantic one.

[–]Penultimate_Penance[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

It is a faith based belief question, especially since trans activists are demanding that biological men be treated as though they were women. It is impossible for a male person to know what it feels like to be a female person unless someone believes in something similar to a soul separate from the body (innate gender identity). A belief in something innate separate from the body has 1,000s of years of religious history. The only difference between a transwoman and any other man from a nonbeliever's perspective is that one man claims to be a woman and one does not. Physically they are indistinguishable. A man who has 'transitioned' is just a man who got some body modifications. There are men who have transitioned who believe they are still men. Is there an objective way to verify which male bodied people are actually women on the inside and which ones are not other than just taking their word for it?

I respect that it is a deeply felt personal belief hence my willingness to engage in some social niceties while engaging with trans identified individuals in real life, but I'm not willing to do more than that. My rights, my beliefs, my boundaries and my consent matters too.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (7 children)

It is a faith based belief question, especially since trans activists are demanding that biological men be treated as though they were women.

No it isn’t. It’s semantic or taxonomic. It has nothing to do with faith. The “trans is religion” thing is a full on gaslighting campaign and nothing less.

Challenge the assertions if you wish but calling it a religion is simply disingenuous.

[–]Penultimate_Penance[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

If a woman is not an adult human female, then what is a woman? If you're a woman then what am I? I don't have an internal sense of gender, so does that mean I'm not a woman?

Is there an objective way to prove that some male bodied people are actually women on the inside? Is there an objective independently verifiable way to measure gender identity? If not, it is a subjective faith based belief and should be treated as such.

I think the comparison to religion is quite apt, many trans activist arguments & claims are so similar to religious arguments & claims that they may as well be twins. Really I'm getting deja vu from my freshly minted apostate days.

Pseudoreligion: Belief or philosophy with certain aspects of religion (a founder, a principal text, faith-based beliefs, etc.).

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

If you're a woman then what am I?

That’s up to you. You seem to consider yourself a woman so that would be my guess.

Is there an objective way to prove that some male bodied people are actually women on the inside

No but subjective doesn’t mean faith based. Depression isn’t religious but the symptoms are purely subjective. Or fibromyalgia.

There’s nothing faith based. I don’t have a “woman’s soul”. The natural body I grew disgusted me and made me distressed to the point of impairing function so i fixed it. I’m more comfortable being called a woman and distressed by being called a man so that’s what I facilitate. There’s no religion involved.

[–]Penultimate_Penance[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So for you would you describe it as a personal fiction that helps you get by? Are people who claim trans status, but do not have gender dysphoria actually trans? What you're describing sounds like transmedicalism which makes a lot more sense than woman gender. There is definitely a difference between preferring to be called a woman and claiming to be a woman. Preferring to be called a woman I would not consider faith based, but claiming to actually be a woman despite having a male body is quite a reach that goes right into faith territory.

I'm a woman because I have a female body not because I consider myself one. Identifying as something and actually being that thing is very different. Many transwomen claim that they have a woman gender and are claiming that they are actually women, which is where the conflicts arise like the Wi Spa incident, because women (female bodied people) have very different needs than male bodied people, which is why the law needs to be based on sex not gender identity.

There are objective external aspects of both of those illnesses that can be observed, tested for and measured. Objective criteria can also be defined for gender dysphoria making it diagnosable. Innate gender identity is a different beast though. It's too similar to the belief in a soul for my taste. Having gender dysphoria does not make a male bodied person a woman, but it is understandable given the nature of the condition that is what they would preferred to be seen as.

Major depression: an illness with objective physical signs Fibromyalgia: Understand how it's diagnosed

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

I’m a transmedicalist if that wasn’t clear.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

So for you would you describe it as a personal fiction that helps you get by?

What’s your answer to this? Just curious.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I wouldn’t describe it as a fiction. I consider myself a woman personally. But I would accept it as a polite fiction to others rather than being called a man.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Depression isn’t religious but the symptoms are purely subjective

This is not true. There are many objective, physical symptoms of depression that are observable by others & measurable by scientific standards.