Both: What do you think about the transgender incident at the Wi Spa in Los Angeles?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

Two videos have gone viral about a woman (and several supporters) who were confronted in the female-only area of a Korean day spa with a nude natal male individual with testicles and penis intact. There were also underage female children in the jacuzzi, and the women were upset that the person was allowed into the area despite there being both male and co-ed areas the individual could have entered.

A Korean spa is not for the modest. To enter the spa and sauna on gender segregated floors, we ask that no clothing be worn. Bathing suits are not allowed in the spas. Please shower prior to entering the spas. Most guests wrap themselves in the towels provided.

Woman talks to spa desk employees:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vNterJmIHJs

Woman talks to the manager:

https://media.spinster.xyz/9ede9577d6ad2eaea2ef0f61c319ebc886566c04891d32a882c202744761daf0.mp4

We weren't told anything else about the individual, but it appears the person looked like a normal male.

One mainstream media article attacks the woman and her supporters and calls their complaints a "transphobic rant," while Fox News presented the story as a rare occurrence that is not supported by the majority of the trans community:

https://www.dailydot.com/irl/video-transphobic-woman-spa-employee

https://www.foxnews.com/media/lgbtq-community-appalled-after-transgender-exposes-male-genitalia-in-front-of-young-girls-at-la-spa

What do you think of this incident? California has self ID, and the law prevents this business from putting any type of restriction on who may enter the female-only area. If an individual says they identify as a woman, that's all that's required, even if no medical steps have been taken.

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lmao I’ve been to that spa before, years ago

Anyway-

Fuck the man who went into the women’s space

Fuck that random man who thought his opinion (which probably isn’t really even his own) mattered

Fuck that spa, fuck that law, hell fuck California too

It’s sad that it’s not surprising that one man’s desire for validation matters more than the comfort and privacy of all of those women and girls. I don’t really have much to say other than females deserve male free (yes even males who think their mental illness or cross sex hormones make them no longer or somehow less male) spaces. The misogyny is loud AF

The women were in the right and I applaud them for speaking up. Like- we see that there are several women who are upset but sure, keep pretending most of us don’t care or are supportive of our safe spaces being dismantled

Also- can we just all agree on how LOVELY it is to have the reassurance that when the inevitable issues that stem from letting any man who cries “woman” access female spaces arise, at least we know the manager and staff of any given establishment will be at a complete loss for words when it’s time to address any concerns or questions women may have.

Imagine defending a naked man getting into a jacuzzi with a 9 year old girl -because gender over female rights at all costs- and thinking “this is totally the right side of history”

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Side note- as I said, I’ve been to that spa. the few times I went there were several underage girls and women of all ages there. Pretty much every space but the toilets and individual massage tables is shared in fairly open space, even the showers- which are REQUIRED. Granted they could have rearranged things since I was there, but from what I recall, there’d have not really been anywhere that man could have discreetly gone about his business without making anyone uncomfortable (were he so inclined) or for a woman/girl to go for some privacy if she was uncomfortable. I went with a friend who didn’t realize we’d have to be nude and shower and she was really nervous and actually cried when she realized there wasn’t anywhere for her to hide (she ended up relaxing and feeling comfortable and later said she was glad she experienced it, she was glad to see all of those women there just comfortable and not self conscious- an experience that’s been denied the women in the video and according to them, quite a few other women who were too afraid to speak up).

The problems with this law are all on display. And it’s not gonna matter.

[–][deleted] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Ugh, that sounds kind of awful, I really feel for your friend. That's a really vulnerable situation and place to be in, like that requires so much trust between parties so being there, vulnerable, and suddenly there's a male right there and you can't escape would be so horrifying and traumatizing.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was a positive experience for her, she was feeling self conscious but ended up appreciating the experience because it made her feel more comfortable. This was like 10 years ago so there were only women and girls there with us. I imagine we would have just left if we encountered a male in the spaces. Even I would have been uncomfortable.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's actually really cool and admirable if your friend felt better for the experience, it sounds uncomfortable even in a safe and calm environment, so much respect to her.

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think this is a good example of how full of shit the "i just want to pee" bit is.

If that was all there would not be such conflicts. You now have a man swinging his dick around with women and little girls where everyone is naked and feels even more vulnerable.

A spa is not something you need to survive, and a women's only section even less. There are mixed spas, go to one of those if you are trans ok?

Women are way more vulnerable. 1 in 5 is raped, 1 in 3 has been sexually assaulted, most of us had multiple horrible experiences with me getting harrassed on the street/bar/taxi or followed or whatever. You have no right to be in those spaces if you are born a man making everyone scared and uncomfortable.

You need validation give it to yourself and get therapy. Women are not here for your self image unlinke a lot of trans and other men think.

So good for her for that women speaking up and good for the other women to get their money back and the ones that were in line turning around. We don't need this shit we deal enough with shitty men on a daily basis. In a womens only section there should only be women.

I do feel bad for the manager having to deal with this when they cant legally turn away transgenders. It sucks to be in that position. More people affected by the "we just want to pee and live our lives in peace" squad.

I am getting so angry about this shit, this gross enourmous misogyny and disregard of women's boundaries and safety.

[–]worried19[S] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do feel bad for the manager having to deal with this when they cant legally turn away transgenders. It sucks to be in that position.

Yeah, there was no way that manager believed what she was saying. But she would have gotten fired if she had deviated from the company line. It was pretty obvious that she stuck to the script and only reiterated that they were not allowed to discriminate against gender identity. I wonder how many other incidents they've had like this that weren't filmed.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you think of this incident?

. . . that we really should have started a pool on this bullshit going viral. It was absolutely, unquestionably bound to happen.

And that when minors are exposed to this, every remaining argument of inclusivity goes out the window, and it's in the terrain of sex offense. Full stop.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was really horrified. Maybe it will wake people up to what can happen with self-ID laws. I feel like it’s a sex offense regardless of what the law says. There also has to be something wrong with you too want to force women and girls to look at you naked like that. He’s a piece of shit who should be behind bars.

[–]worried19[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The thing that bugs me most is that the individual didn't use the co-ed area. That makes me pretty certain this was a bad actor with bad motivations. Going into an area fully nude with naked women and underage girls with your male genitals intact makes me think that at the very least their decision was based on validation and entitlement, and worst case scenario, there may have been a predatory sexual motivation.

By the way, I personally have nothing against mixed nudity, but it should be a choice, not forced on people who are expecting a single sex environment. My family was casual about nudity and I was frequently naked around kids and adults of both sexes while changing, and there was nothing weird or traumatizing about it. But that was my family's culture, not society as a whole. I would have no problem being naked around a non-op trans woman as long as it was a designated space for that.

[–]FlanJam 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That dailydot article is ridiculous. How can anyone defend this shit? There were underage girls present for fucks sake. Its a shame this story will probably get brushed under the rug, more people need to be aware.

[–]worried19[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Watch the mainstream media studiously ignore it. Fox News talked about the incident, but I can guarantee CNN and the others never will.

[–]hfxB0oyA 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Congratulations go out to postmodern third wave feminism - they won so hard that they lost.

[–]comradeconradical 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

postmodernism was a mistake smh

[–]Penultimate_Penance 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. The Male Bodied Person aka man should be charged with indecent exposure.

  2. If a business decides to allow any male bodied people in a women's single sex space the signage should be changed to unisex so women know what they are walking into. Keeping the sign women only and allowing male bodied people to enter is unacceptable.

  3. Any male bodied person who exposes himself to women and girls in women's bathrooms and locker rooms is a sexual predator. Full stop. Trans status should not give male bodied people extra super special immunity from sex crime law nor should it give them permission to sexually harass women which is exactly what this trans identified individual did. Transwomen do not have a right to force women to see their penis without their consent. That this even needs to be said is absurd.

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This incident only shows how little sense those laws have. It's not only that self-ID laws ban single sex spaces, but one is expected to pretend that is not the case. I think that woman was right in complaining about the presence of a male in there, ridiculous law notwithstanding. Even if there weren't minors, the trans identified male was wrong for ignoring women's boundaries.

[–]worried19[S] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was also crazy because apparently they had a sign up that said they would prosecute men who went into the female-only area, but since this individual said they identified as female, it didn't apply to them.

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL I swear you can't parody any of this, which sucks because you can't talk about this with unawared people without sounding like a conspiracy theorist.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Disgusting. Some bloke is encouraged to walk around the ladies room with his dick dangling and a woman who feels uncomfortable is vilified as some awful hysteric.

If a man showed her his cock on the train he’s be charged and everyone would recognise that she was the victim of the guy flashing himself. Put the man in a women’s changing room and suddenly that cock is not only acceptable to show to women, it’s criminal for the women to dislike it.

Just tape up a sign saying “we hate women” and spare us all the time and effort.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That male flashed in like half a meter from a 9 years old girl. That could traumatize her for life.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Eewwww ew that’s so disgusting and predatory there is no way it was not deliberate. That man chose to expose himself to a little girl and people are defending him🤢 Humans were a mistake and we should go back to the ocean.

[–]littlebear 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Typical male entitlement. Flashing their dick around.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I went to read the comments on r/actualpublicfreakout and found they have all been deleted. A positive sign?

I think that idiot with the mustache is the problem with the world. I'm also imagining what would have happened if an old, overweight (sorry using the culture's stigmas) woman walked around naked before young boys and a man complained at the front desk. Female bodies are always considered sexual even though we don't display our arousal! I cannot, cannot imagine this scenario in reverse.

edit. Scratch the old and overweight. A younger woman would be seen as an evil temptress before the young. Any "type" of woman would be more scandalous in the way accorded to her "type." Old, young, thin, not thin, all women's bodies are sexualized, ugliness and beauty alike considered necessary reasons to cover them.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

All those men standing around, and not one of them spoke up in support of the women. I guess if one had, he'd be accused of white knighting, but damn. All you have is this woke asshole trying to mansplain to the women why they shouldn't be upset.

I went to read the comments on r/actualpublicfreakout and found they have all been deleted. A positive sign?

Looks like the first one got purged, but there's a second one where comments are still up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ActualPublicFreakouts/comments/o9920e/mods_lock_post_about_transgender_man_in_womens

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Mustache man is just a random man who wants to lecture her, right? Some of the reddit commenters think he is the one who was in the women's part of the spa.

Overall the comments are a positive sign! I thought there would be way more shut up karening etc.

[–]worried19[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, no, he's just some random dude in the lobby. Not the naked person from the jacuzzi.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That is not sole incident, last week one more like that happened in LA. I wonder if in few months those SPA would bankrupt as no woman will go there? Especially when flashers are exposing themselves in few feet distance in front of 9 years old girls.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks!

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't know who she is, and I don't think we get a clear view of her. I suspect she will turn out to be Our Lady if Wi and a shrine will be built to honor her.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ha, I love it. By the way, if you go to 4:32 on the second video, you can see her. She talks directly to the camera.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hadn't seen that video! Thanks! I saw the one where she ends up being literally man-splained by some sad beta dude about trans identity. I love this video because she raises the issue of lying. Who is to say he isn't lying. Prior to this "identity" nonsense, we had a universally accept way of knowing. The opposite of science replaces a clear way of knowing with hand waving and pretending we don't know.

Rarely do Marian apparitions get video tapped, but there she is: Our Lady of Wi (I hope that's not me being sacrilegious)

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 11 fun1 insightful - 10 fun2 insightful - 11 fun -  (53 children)

The spa was in the right if the person in question was a woman. Bigotry has no place in the running of a business

Edit: took the story the wrong way

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

The person in question was not a woman since they flashed a big ol’ penis and testicles.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 11 fun1 insightful - 10 fun2 insightful - 11 fun -  (12 children)

How quaint that you think that matters

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

How typical that you can’t argue against this fact.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 12 fun1 insightful - 11 fun2 insightful - 12 fun -  (10 children)

Because it doesn’t matter? Sex is a spectrum and “woman” is an identity.

[–]BiologyIsReal 17 insightful - 2 fun17 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

But if women are just a social construct, then there is no reason for anyone to take that nude dude's claims of being a woman seriously. If one can't define what a woman is, then no one can claim to be a woman either.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Since women don’t exist, transwomen can’t exist. So transwomen cannot possibly need rights or hormones or surgeries. Can’t get facial feminisation when there’s no such thing as a female. So I can call all transwomen men to their faces and it’s not rude or offensive because man isn’t a category or thing.

Redacted because mods aren’t allowed to endorse common sense without qt revolting.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Can’t get facial feminisation when there’s no such thing as a female

This this this this this so much fucking this

One of the biggest reasons I haven’t given up on addressing the sex matrix thing is because I’m dying for Heim to address this contradiction lol

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Lmao heim addressing any of the flaws pointed out in ~their~ folio of bullshit is as likely as it raining chocolate sauce.

This is someone who one day says ‘I am a woman’ and the next says ‘women don’t exist’ and then sits back acting like we’re the stupid ones.

Even now heim will ignore the points and simply piss and moan about use of the word stupid and report is as ableism. I’m sick of heim getting away with being a bullshit artist and us getting told to stop calling him a man.

[–]shveya 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It makes me wonder if those who share "their" opinions even view women as human.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

According to you. Unless you’re suggesting we should all take your opinions as facts. I’m certain that’s what you really want, right?

Anyway, spectrums and identities dont exist. Your identity is just a construct, not what you are Nominalism!

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I suggest you give more elaborated answers rather than just saying something is bigotry or certain people are bigots as that was the end of the discussion.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

The question was what do you think, and I answered.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, you did. And I'm saying it would be great if you gave more elaborated answers because it's hard to discuss with someone who mainly give one-sentence answers, half of which are acussations of some kind of bigotry.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

The spa was absolutely in the wrong. But not for the reasons you’re stating. Also this makes no sense coming from qt because the spa took the side of the invasive man and not the uncomfortable women and girls, so from your perspective, what did the spa do that was bigoted/wrong?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Totally misunderstands the situation Stands by calling women bigots cause they thought they disagreed.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Imagine thinking the women are wrong and not the naked dude in the pool with a little girl. Yeah it’s the females, not the male who made them all feel uncomfortable.

I can’t believe people really think this way

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That little girl is a monster for not wanting a cock a foot away from her face. Girls should be grateful for the chance to see some lovely soft feminine testicles. She’s being educated out of her bigotry by being exposed to naked men.

What kind of mother doesn’t want her child to see the genitals of random men? It’s good for them that’s why as a society were so enamoured with pedophiles and the many opportunities they present for children’s education.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 3 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 7 fun -  (25 children)

I mistook the situation

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

So if the 14 year old girl who was there felt uncomfortable would she also be a bigot?

What about the 9 year old?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (23 children)

Yes to both. Children can be bigoted

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Im not even going to waste my time on someone who thinks a nine year old girl who is uncomfortable with a grown ass man getting naked around her is bigoted.

You’ve already said it’s okay for TW to rape people, so I’m not that surprised. I guess I was just hoping you weren’t also cool with children being sexually harassed.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (21 children)

I don’t think that, I think that cis 9 year olds who are uncomfortable around trans women are bigots. Also I never said that raping people is okay, thats just your transphobia coloring your view and making you think that trans people must always disclose their trans status to their potential sexual partners, a standard you don’t hold for comparable group identities as thus evidence of your bigotry. QED

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Don't you have any other argument besides calling anyone a bigot?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Yes as Ive shown before

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

You did say that it was okay to rape by deception. Don’t run from it, own your truth. It doesn’t make sense to pretend it isn’t what you said like I can’t go back and find the thread. It’s not up to you to give others free range to sexually violate others. Trans people aren’t owed sex. If they don’t disclose, it’s because they value their desire to get fucked over the right of someone else to give consent. It is disgusting to support that.

You’re a rape apologist and apparently supportive of children being made to feel uncomfortable around inappropriate grown men in spaces meant to offer them a sense of safety and comfort.

Don’t respond to me. I don’t feel comfortable interacting with you.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (17 children)

The fact that you believe that trans people have to disclose their trans status to potential sexual partners, but that say jewish people don’t have to on the off chance that a potential sexual partner is an antisemite is evidence of your prejudice against trans people. I mean should white passing black women in the 30s and 40s have had to disclose their racial status to potential white lovers given that many white people at time wouldn’t knowingly have sex with a black person? Would it have been rape by deception if they didn’t?

Double standards = Prejudice

I’m sure the segregationists made the same argument about black women using “whites only” spaces. “Think of the children” is an old tool in the bigots handbook

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

All I hear is rape apologia

Asked you not to respond to me, rape apologist

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What did that spa do that was wrong? They complied with the law. According to CA law, it was the woman who was complaining that was in the wrong.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

Correct. I mistook the situation

[–]kwallio 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So you admit you misunderstood what happened and just leapt to calling people bigots based on your misunderstanding and zero proof?

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

No I called them bigots because if the spa had taken the side of the transphobic cis woman then they would have been bigots

[–]kwallio 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hahahah you are really funny.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I know my husband tells me that all the time

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 9 fun2 insightful - 8 fun3 insightful - 9 fun -  (21 children)

If women with vaginas are allowed to be nude in the area, then I don't have a problem with allowing women with penises, or anyone else for that matter, to do the same thing. If nudity in general was not allowed in the area, then the trans woman was exposing herself and it would be no different than exposing yourself on the street. In that case, she definitely should be charged.

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

No woman has a penis mate.

The moment you let a penis in a room no matter who is attached to it, it no longer is a single sex woman's space and becomes unisex.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 8 fun1 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 8 fun -  (3 children)

Some women have penises. Some men have vaginas.

I am against single sex spaces.

[–]BiologyIsReal 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

But why would a "trans woman" have a penis? Didn't you said that people with a "female gender identity" would freak out if they had a penis? Shouldn't "trans women" want to get rid of it ASAP? Shouldn't "trans women" feel very self-concious at exposing their penises in a spa or any other setting were nudity is expected? If now you say that not freaking out about penises is not needed for a "female gender identity", then what does define a woman according to you?

[–]NeedMoreCoffeeGC 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Ofcourse you are.

Who gives a fuck that 90% of rapes and sexual assaults of women that happen in public bathrooms/lockerrooms/changing rooms happen in unisex ones. I'm sure you never had a problem so fuck everyone else am i right?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Other women are just bad and have no morals if they so much as think a male person will hurt them. Stats don’t matter because women can commit crime too. 🙄

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

There is literally a co-ed area why can't trans people use that? The women's section is there for women who don't want to see male bodies. And young girls should absolutely NOT be subjected to a strangers dick, this shouldn't be controversial.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 9 fun1 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 9 fun -  (13 children)

Young girls should not be subject to strangers vaginas either. Why are parents even bringing their young children to a naked spa?

[–]FlanJam 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

In many cultures its okay for women to be naked around other women. That's why spas and bathhouses have a designated women's section.

But that's diverting from my original point. Trans people are welcome to use the spa, just use the co-ed section. Meanwhile women who don't want to be around male bodies can use the women's section. The whole issue can easily be avoided if people just used the designated sections, I don't see why this is so hard.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (7 children)

Why should little kids be taken to naked bathhouses and be exposed to strange vaginas?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Key concept: Consent. Trans activists seem to have a really hard time understanding this. If it's not consensual it's not okay.

I have never once in my life been sexually harassed, threatened, or nearly killed by a woman. But I sure as hell have had to deal with all of that bullshit from men. Not just once, but throughout my entire life. Most women I know have experienced varying degrees of male sexual terrorism and violence. That's why I have no problem consenting to share a locker room with other women, but not with men. Do you really want to make life easier for sexual predators, pedophiles and creeps? Do you?

Allowing male bodied people into single sex spaces reserved for female bodied people does exactly that. Once that boundary is destroyed women no longer have a legal right to say no and we are fucked literally and figurately by piece of shit sexual predators who should've never been allowed in in the first place! You are arguing that we should destroy what little recourse women have when a piece of shit sexually harasses her and yes nonconsensual dick exposure is sexual harassment. In the good ol' days before this madness took off we could go to the manager and have that bastard kicked out of the establishment and put on the sex offender registry, so everyone would know that he is a dangerous rotten creep that should be kept far far away from women and children.

[–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Again, you're diverting from the original point. Why can't trans people use the co-ed section? Seems like a fair solution that would satisfy everyone.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 7 fun -  (4 children)

I feel they should be able to use any section.

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's not how sections work...

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 8 fun2 insightful - 7 fun3 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

Then eliminate sections.

[–]FlanJam 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well that's a pretty fringe view. I don't think the vast majority of people would want that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

And we’re back at your real point which is fuck everyone else’s wants and needs, they should do what you want.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

…they’re not, considering vaginas are inside of the body.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

They can still be seen, otherwise I would be allowed to walk around in public without underwear.

[–][deleted] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Which part of a vagina can be seen walking around without underwear? Here is a diagram to help you out.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I’m imagining someone running past a park, totally starkers, and doing a handstand and a leg spread to the gods. Then I realised if a woman did that nobody at the park would have seen her vagina despite the efforts.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What about consent?

  • If I walk into a unisex locker room I am consenting to share that space with strangers that have male bodies or female bodies.
  • If I walk into the women's locker room I am consenting to share that space with strangers that have female bodes.

Exposing genitals to people without their consent is indecent exposure and it is a sex crime for a reason. No one should be forced to see a surprise penis. Any man who exposes his penis to women who did not consent to it is a sexual predator full stop and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

Some men need to be forced by law to keep their unwanted disgusting dicks to themselves. Women have a right to be free from sexual harassment and that includes freedom from exhibitionists who enjoy flashing their genitals in front of the unsuspecting public particularly women and girls.