QT: How is not creepy/predatory for people with male bodies aka men to demand access to women's single sex spaces where women are going to naked like locker rooms?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 5 insightful - 8 fun5 insightful - 7 fun6 insightful - 8 fun -  (2 children)

First of all if like to thank you for the question. Before I proceed with an answer id like to point out a few things, which may be reasons why you won't get an answer.

1st: Your question itself is loaded. By asking a negative "why is it not... ?" everyone who wants to answer will instantly have to start any point by defending a position your question assigns to them. A position they may not necessarily share. 2nd: In your question you equate male bodied = men instead of just using male. Here you're again injecting your own position into a question...

Nevermind. I just read the rest of your post and it continues in the same charged way by equating trans women's need for safety - which is the same desire as cis women's - to predatory behavior via the red flag bit. Maybe you can do better in your next post.

Do you find it a bit disturbing that destroying single sex spaces for women would directly benefit pedophiles and run of the mill sexual predators? Is it really worth it to make a fraction of a minority of the male population feel more "validated"?

I'm just gonna respond with a simple answer. Increased trans visibility will lead to decreased safety in strictly sex segregated spaces. Simply preventing trans women to enter these spaces wont change that. Why do I think so. Let's assume that spaces where strictly sex segregated. You know have trans men - which greatly increase in numbers atm using women's space. Let's assume a few of these pass - which is likely. You know have what looks like a cis man in a female space. In my opinion this would make it even easier for potential predators.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

In both situations we are ending up with "someone looking like a man in women's spaces".

But in one situation that someone would be female, with around same strenght as other females, without ability to impregnate and with around 1000 times less tendencies to violence than males. And in other situation that someone would be male, who is stronger, on average more violent, who will not understand female's lived experience and needs.

In one case there can be some misunderstanding with transmen. In other case woman will be charged for asking why someone who is identifying as woman once a week on thursdays is accessing shelters or showers.

In cases like with Californian shelter it will be different too - when such transman would be in the shower with other vulnureable women they would still have cosmetically changed female body. While what we got is some male pretending to be transwoman with erected penis showering with women who were raped recently or survived domestic violence and making sexualized comments about them. And when they refused to shower - by rules of shelter they should be excluded from it (as can't be dirty there, need to eat and shower) and be homeless.

And so on. In both cases it is "can be abused", but in one case women can say "no" and most times that "manly looking person" will be female, and in other case women would be punished for saying "no" and most times that "manly looking person" will be male, who can just pretend to be trans (as nowadays all you need is just say "I am woman today", so not really much work for them to do - especially remembering so recent doctor and priest scandals, when paedos studied for decade to gain access to victims, compared to that just saying few words is just nothing). And in some countries like Norway or Canada, it is possible for man just say they are non-binary, and that is giving them ability to chose which spaces they want to enter - so even less effort needed.

And anyways, IF they pass really well, they can just use toiled to "sex they are passing well as" and that would not be that big of a problem. But overwhelming majority of transgender people does not pass, and many of predators are not even trying, so they would be easy to spot on in such scenario.

[–]Penultimate_Penance[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent point