QT: How is the concept of a "gender identity" not sexist?

submitted by Penultimate_Penance from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think this implies that not all of them are aware.

Well, some of them are children, so it'd probably be those ones. I don't believe that any of the adults didn't know, while the scientists conducting the study did, despite what that sentence's structure seems to be suggesting. I guess that is an assumption on my part. I don't remember the relevancy of this anymore. Whether they know the truth or not doesn't really undermine the existence of gender identity.

Why just one of them have a "female gender identity"

According to Stoller, transgender males have a male gender identity bc they recognise that they are male but want to be female.

because you're set in thinking socialization being the only thing that matters

The gendered part of a person's socialisation has an effect on their identity, that effect; that resulting part of their identity, is called gender identity. I fail to see the controversy. There are parts of our identity that we share with others. They are social identities. One of those social identities is gender identity. Where is the justification to exclude gender identity from the social identities?

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

According to Stoller, transgender males have a male gender identity bc they recognise that they are male but want to be female.

I don't care what Stoller thought, I asked what YOU think about it. And I asked about little kids being transed by their parents, not little kids identifying as trans on their own, anyway.

The gendered part of a person's socialisation has an effect on their identity, that effect; that resulting part of their identity, is called gender identity. I fail to see the controversy. There are parts of our identity that we share with others. They are social identities. One of those social identities is gender identity. Where is the justification to exclude gender identity from the social identities?

Repeating yourself again and again and again won't convince me, dude. I'd explained my position at length. If you don't like my answers, then we're going to agree to disagree. Believe whatever you want, but stop telling me I've to "reclaim" the term of "gender identity" when I've told you several times how much I hate it. It's bad enough already to listen to anything TRAs demand.

[–]SnowAssMan 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You refuse to admit that upbringing influences identity. You never once addressed the other social identities I mentioned. You can pretend you answered it but you never did. Here is the unanswered question yet again: do all the social identities not exist, or only gender identity?

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've already said multiple times that women and men are socialized differently, but sex is the relevant part for identity (although I must I don't share current obsession with the concept of identity). But if you want to talk about unanswered questions, here are the questions you didn't answer:

  1. What are really the differences between a boy who was subject to unnecessary medical procedures and raised as a "girl" because he losed his penis, and a boy who was subject to unnecessary medical procedures (although at different times) and raised as a "girl" because he liked the wrong toys at, for instance, age 3? Why just one of them have a "female gender identity" when they are both living a lie imposed by sexists adults who think they are better off as "girls"?

  2. How do you explain males with 5α-reductase-2 deficiency who are mistaken as girls at birth and who adopt a male identity after puberty?

  3. How thinking that anyone raised as a girl (whether or not they are female) has a female "gender identity" regardless of outcome because they were raised that way is not circular logic?