All: Is autogynephilia normal in natal women?

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[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

Paraphilias are almost exclusively diagnosed in men, only rarely in women. I've never known a woman who experienced or presented as AGP. (Not even sure how that would be possible for a woman outside of comorbid dissociative identity disorder or schizophrenia or something similar . . . in which case it probably wouldn't even be considered a paraphilia.)

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 4 insightful - 7 fun4 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 7 fun -  (27 children)

But there are paraphilias associated with women and women's sexuality isn't generally the same as males.

I can look at erotica popular with women think they reflect female desires. What's unreasonable about that?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

A paraphilia is a DSM-classed dysfunction. Dysfunctions are defined by the negative impact they have on self and others and their level of underlying and progressive compulsion. I'd suggest a true paraphilia is both compulsive and linked with a literal behavior.

Erotica is imaginative engagement. A paraphilia includes a literal fetishistic engagement.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (25 children)

I don't know how I feel about the DSM as it is changeable.

I don't think either of us are going to agree with every social science piece on sexuality. I guess why we deabte.

But why do you think men have more "fetishes" ?

Erotic and fetishistic can also be a bit of spectrum. This also gets a bit akin to "You use porn I use erotica."

As I said heterosexual norms flipped are judged deviant.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Be glad the DSM's changeable -- else we'd still be classing LGB as disorders. Science changes constantly based on cumulative evidence and advancing understanding. Change isn't the issue imo -- rather it's lack of rigor/peer review and (as we've seen lately) undue external influence.

I don't know why men have more fetishes. If I were working that, I'd look at the biological-cognitive and socialization differences involved based on sex.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Good thing the DSM board has never been troubled with little technicalities like science.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, completely accurate there. No science involved whatsoever. /s

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (21 children)

I don't know why men have more fetishes. If I were working that, I'd look at the biological-cognitive and socialization differences involved based on sex.

You don't think it's something natural?

Would you say women generally have a preference for masculinity as an erotic target?

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

You don't think it's something natural?

What is "natural?" Neurons and endogenous hormones are "natural." (Not being an asshole here, just keeping it Socratic.)

Would you say women generally have a preference for masculinity as an erotic target?

Loaded question. First we'd have to define "masculinity." I think that's way outside the OP's theme here.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (19 children)

What is "natural?" Neurons and endogenous hormones are "natural." (Not being an asshole here, just keeping it Socratic.)

ha sure. It very much is the question.

Masculinity and femininity seem so pervasive, it looks natural. Attempts to deconstruct them and abolish them always seem to fail.

It's not that there are complete forms of masculinity and femininity inside people. But the desire to form them seems so strong. Linked into all kinds of behaviour.

People always seem to focus on them either towards one or the other. Not the extreme but a modal difference.

Loaded question. First we'd have to define "masculinity." I think that's way outside the OP's theme here.

But surely highly related to the topic?

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But surely highly related to the topic?

Tangentially.

I'm off to (another late) breakfast and the rest of our holiday weekend here.

A suggestion, if you're up for it: pull together a working thesis. Define your terms (feminine, masculine, fetishism, etc.) -- these can be conditional or working definitions, so long as they're noted as such. Invoke or challenge the evidence you do/do not think applies most closely to your central argument (Social Constructivism, Blanchard, etc.). Bring in personal anecdotes that you feel illustrate or support your central argument. Condense an element of that central argument into a debate question -- general or specific -- and post it to the sub.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds good. I do have ideas. But it's more a matter of time use. I was lucky to get a break from reddit when the old sub was banned. But hey I love talking about gender.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

No, this is pretty off-topic and going off-topic to focus on masculinity, feminity and essentialism seems to be a habit of yours. So, I suggest you create your own thread to discuss these topics there or I'm going to start deleting your off-topics comments.

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I'm down for discussing it, whether here or on another thread, but the debate sub has always had comment chains veer off in different directions.

I really don't want to see theory's comments get deleted.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

harsh. I don't think that would happen on the old sub.

I thought masculinity, femininity and essentialism were central topics to Blanchardian Autogynphilia.