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[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (11 children)

In the sprawling metro U.S. region I grew up in pre-Disney-Princess-era, no. In the unis I've attended here and abroad in the West, no. YMMV.

To be clear you are saying in these environments there is no relationship between gender expression and sexual orientation?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

There didn't seem to be, in terms of masc/femme attributes. This was also before the trans craze really gained momentum.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (9 children)

You're saying before "the trans craze" the populations in these environments were equally masculine and feminine regardless of their sex?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No, that's not what I said, and it's not what I'm "saying."

I also know enough Greats to know a logos trap when I see one.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

So what are you meaning?

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That we're descending into legalistic argumentation.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Do you mean within the gay community they were equally masculine and feminine regardless of their sex?

I'm trying to see what you are describing.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I haven't had breakfast yet, give me a mo.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

sure no worries

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks. Okay. This is going to ramble a bit. So I was at uni (undergrad and postgrad) at the maturing of the alternative music scene here in the U.S. Scott Weiland and Kurt Cobain were performing in dresses (occasionally) and mascara (usually) and Dave Navarro walked a runway in a lacy purple camisole, and Riot Grrrl bands were wearing . . . whatever the hell they wanted, basically. The gender-bending in the fashion ethos evolved out of 80s theatricality and 70s glam and 60s . . . well, everything, but with a hardened thrift-store edge. So students and extra-uni friends weren't wearing much in the way of gender-conforming clothing. The retro look of that era was 1940s.

Against that backdrop, in that population, there wasn't a very clear-cut set of style guidelines or affectations between "feminine" and "masculine," gay or straight. The presentation was a lot more (no pun) fluid than it was before, or is now. It's definitely regressed since the early 2000s.