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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

The only thing that sometimes worries me about discussions of transmen in GC spaces is that I feel like they are infantilized. Like, transwomen are seen an abusive, evil narcissists most of the time, but at least are seen as in control of their lives and choices. In contrast, I feel like transmen are seen more often as victims unable to really make true decisions the way male trans people do. Often they are described as just doing things to stand out (“not like the other girls” comes up a lot, which seems to me a like a ridiculous way to talk about someone’s struggle with dysphoria, not that everyone is dysphoric, but if they are that just crazy to me). Of course patriarchy exists so there are some reasons to view female choices through that lens, but it’s hard for me not see some of it as infantilizing and perpetuating a kind of sexism.

Btw, this isn’t directed at anyone here, but I read Ovarit and the GC main sub and I feel like it’s something I see a lot. I feel like it would really bother me if I was a transman and I feel bad that they are treated that way.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

I agree with you 100%. Trans men themselves say they don't transition due to misogyny or trauma due to being a woman, but GCs like to force that narrative on them.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Women said they don't need to vote and that being a stay-at-home wife obedient to her husband is "empowering" and that being beaten by their husbands isn't wrong. Women and men say misogynistic things literally all the time. If just saying "I'm not misogynistic, but..." changed anything, we wouldn't live under the patriarchy, because most people claim this, and yet most are misogynistic.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

Trans men are not women and do not wish to be classed with women. Plus, GCs shouldn't be forcing narratives on trans men, just like trans men don't force narratives on them.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Trans men are not women and do not wish to be classed with women.

Women said they don't need to vote and that being a stay-at-home wife obedient to her husband is "empowering" and that being beaten by their husbands isn't wrong. Women saying misogynistic things and trying to suck up to the patriarchy doesn't discredit feminism one bit. We've already been through this.

GCs shouldn't be forcing narratives on trans men, just like trans men don't force narratives on them.

Uuuh, enforcing a belief in gendersouls, removing women's protections and advancements in women's rights, telling women they're privileged for being female and gaslighting them in regards to their oppression IS forcing a narrative onto us, or rather women in general. You can't both advocate the removal of rights that a disenfranchised group has fought for, advocate for a completely unfounded regressive worldview with gendersouls to which women's rights need to be sacrificed AND claim that you're not being in any way political.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Women said they don't need to vote and that being a stay-at-home wife obedient to her husband is "empowering" and that being beaten by their husbands isn't wrong. Women saying misogynistic things and trying to suck up to the patriarchy doesn't discredit feminism one bit. We've already been through this.

They're not saying they shouldn't have the right to vote. They're saying they don't want to be classed with you. I don't class GC women women with trans men (I said GC women, not women), because they don't want to be classed with trans women and in turn I don't think it's fair to class trans men with women if they don't want to be classed. They have their own issues and needs.

Uuuh, enforcing a belief in gendersouls, removing women's protections and advancements in women's rights, telling women they're privileged for being female and gaslighting them in regards to their oppression IS forcing a narrative onto us, or rather women in general. You can't both advocate the removal of rights that a disenfranchised group has fought for, advocate for a completely unfounded regressive worldview with gendersouls to which women's rights need to be sacrificed AND claim that you're not being in any way political.

We're not saying you're privileged for being female. We're saying you're privileged for being cis. Trans men at some point lived presenting as female and know some female struggles, yet they themselves are a marginalized group separate from women.