GC: Why is there more focus on trans women than trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Free speech as a principle should matter for society at large. If someone can lose their job, receive death & rape threats for not agreeing with the status quo of the day their free speech isn't very free is it? The status quo will change. It always does and one day you may very well be on the wrong end of it.

I do not believe people should receive death & rape threats, but employers are already allowed to fire employees for hate speech on their personal social media, like racist and sexist speech. Why should transphobic speech be different? If you think people shouldn't be fired for transphobic speech, that's fine. But that also means people shouldn't be fired for racist and sexist speech outside of work.

Would you like it if a bunch of bigots banned every trans sub on reddit? Would you like it if 100s perhaps even 1000s of people tried to get you fired, because you said something in support of trans activism they didn't like?

Then I'd use another site and boycott reddit. Reddit is a private company and can do what they please.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So if I chose not to sell items in my store to transwomen, I’m not in the wrong because I’m a private business?

I suspect you’d call me a bigot if I did that.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

People should be free to say whatever they want in their private lives. Workplaces should not be allowed to compel their employees speech outside of working hours. That is insane. I wouldn't dream of trying to get a forced birther fired. I vehemently disagree with them, but I think they have just as much a right to earn an honest living as I do unmolested by braying mobs of zealots. You need to understand that everyone, absolutely everyone believes they are in the right. We need damn good hard ground rules for what is unacceptable suppression of free speech on the governmental level and the social level. If the religious zealots come into power again people could lose their jobs for saying they don't believe in god. The examples are endless. Forcing one groups personal beliefs on the rest of society is unacceptable period.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the religious zealots come into power again people could lose their jobs for saying they don't believe in god.

14 islamic countries still have such laws, and at least in 6 of them this can end up with death penalty for a non-believer or a believer in another god than theirs.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

People should be free to say whatever they want in their private lives. Workplaces should not be allowed to compel their employees speech outside of working hours.

I agree for the most part. I just think we shouldn't treat different forms of hate speech differently. If employers are allowed to fire people for racist and sexist speech, why should transphobic speech be treated different? Though yes people should be allowed to use hate speech without getting fired unless their job directly deals with people's welfare. If a judge goes on a racist rant on Facebook, you might wonder if he's giving higher sentences to black and brown defendants for the same crime. Granted, there should be oversight of these things anyway, like an independent commission making sure everyone gets a fair sentence and removing judges from the bench who don't practice this

That is insane. I wouldn't dream of trying to get a forced birther fired. I vehemently disagree with them, but I think they have just as much a right to earn an honest living as I do unmolested by braying mobs of zealots.

On an unrelated note, thank you for using the term forced birther. For anti-abortionists I use the term pro-birth instead of pro-life for anti-abortionists. If they really were about life, these same people would also be advocating for the best health care, for livable wages, for OTC birth control so you wouldn't need an abortion, for police reform, increasing the quality of education, and reducing poverty. But they're not. They just want the kid born. But when the kid is born, these same people complain about single mothers, mothers on welfare because you're always supposed to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and no matter what situation you find yourself in it's entirely your fault. The pro-birth movement was never about life. It's about misogyny and shaming women for their choices.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s not hate speech to say males are men and females are women.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Employers shouldn't be allowed to fire people for racist or sexist speech in their private lives either. All private speech should be protected. What is considered racist or sexist is extremely subjective. The same for transphobia. Women have been fired for saying men are not women. That is batshit.