GC: Why is there more focus on trans women than trans men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (63 children)

On this thread you've bragged about the role you've played in getting women who disagree with you

I did participate in r/gendercynical, but I merely pointed out AFAB people (including myself) were also instrumental in getting GC subs banned. By the way, Reddit is a private-owned site and can make their own rules. Free speech merely refers to the government.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (61 children)

Free speech as a principle should matter for society at large. If someone can lose their job, receive death & rape threats for not agreeing with the status quo of the day their free speech isn't very free is it? The status quo will change. It always does and one day you may very well be on the wrong end of it.

The Trans Activists are the McCarthyists of this generation. Authoritarians are the enemy of pluralistic societies and suppression of dissent is one of their classic mo's. Trans activists are very much so repeating history albeit in a unique way thanks to modern medicine. All it will take is for enough people to say enough! For it all to come crumbling down.

Remember that the people who are suppressed the most by authoritarians are disenfranchised groups like women & minorities, which is why suppressing free speech by mob rule is a fucking big deal. Women have been shouted down as long as we have written history. Your lot is just more of the same misogyny. Trans activism is regressive, your lot has got the fundy conservative Christians beat for viciousness. Screaming at women and telling them to shut up or else isn't a pretty look. Anyone who sends rape and death threats isn't fit to be a member of society. They failed at the bare minimum of basic human decency.

"Have you no sense of decency?"

Threatening people's employment, because they disagree with you is unacceptable. People need money to live, to support their families and trans activists act shocked that people are fighting back against them. Of course there is going to be pushback. We should be free to speak are minds and fight for our rights without being attacked by the braying mob of the day.

Would you like it if a bunch of bigots banned every trans sub on reddit? Would you like it if 100s perhaps even 1000s of people tried to get you fired, because you said something in support of trans activism they didn't like? Would you like it if you were sent death & rape threats, if you were assaulted for advocating for trans rights? Really think about this. Who are the bullies here? Who are the oppressors? Who are the tyrants?

Bigotry Definition: "stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one's own."

In this debate who are the bigots? I'd say it's the group of people who suppress any speech that they don't like. Suppression includes banning subs you don't like from the public square of our modern age. The public square includes platforms like reddit, twitter, facebook etc.

[–]Greensquidsphone 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (53 children)

Would you like it if 100s perhaps even 1000s of people tried to get you fired, because you said something in support of trans activism they didn't like? Would you like it if you were sent death & rape threats, if you were assaulted for advocating for trans rights? Really think about this. Who are the bullies here? Who are the oppressors?

would you like it

Man I sure wish i lived in a world where these things didnt actually happen for being trans so I could imagine them happening and feel bad.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (52 children)

Receipts please. We got plenty of em' ranging from threats, hate mobs hellbent on destroying people's livelihood to assault & murder from the trans activist side. Make sure they are actually from gender critical people. Avoid false equivalences. Saying a man doesn't pass is not equivalent to rape & death threats. Not even close.

A lot of trans activists like to lump conservative homophobes with gender critical people when those two groups are polar opposites. One thing I know for certain. The biggest threat to trans people are men. Why are trans activists so hyper focused on 'terfs' instead of the Johns & homophobic men who are actually doing the killing? Interesting that the people who disagree are vehemently hated, threatened and attacked, but the actual killers, the actual threats to trans people safety for the most part get barely a fraction of the criticism. Gender critical people don't hate trans people, we just want you to stop violating our boundaries and destroying women's rights. No means no. Women's freedom matters more than men's feelings or desire for 'validation'. Women don't owe men shit, no matter what they personally believe.

Trans activists actions are just as bad as the religious tyrants that didn't allow people to voice disagreement or dissent. They thought they were righteous and just too. I'm happy to be on the side that doesn't hang dead rats on a rape crisis shelter's doors with the express purpose of terrorizing rape victims, because god forbid any women anywhere ever being allowed to say no to men.

[–]Greensquidsphone 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (51 children)

Saying a man doesn't pass is not equivalent to rape & death threats. Not even close.

Thank you for telling me what a death threat isn't. Thank you, i had no idea, turns out all those death threats were just people trying to politely tell me I dont pass. /s

I get it, you have the monopoly on oppression, you win.

I also appreciate the three massive paragraphs which basically boil down to "but that isn't us so why should I care."

1)I didn't say it was you. In fact i didn't blame any group at all. I was just joking about your asinine rant about how bad you have it as though trans people... Don't? I guess?

2)it literally IS you. Not in as high a ratio as the literal neo Nazis, but don't worry, radfems have taken themselves a slice of the pie as well. Most of the radfem targeted harassment I've gotten though is doxxing, in fairness to all of you lovely individuals.

Why are trans activists so hyper focused on 'terfs' instead of the Johns & homophobic men who are actually doing the killing?

I mean... They are? You realize they can be upset at both of you at once, and while they ARE out here killing us, radfems certainly aren't innocent considering how aggressively they're trying to legislate out trans people in the uk (and now other pockets of the world too woohoo...)

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (46 children)

You was asked for receipts and examples, not for sarcasms. Opposite examples there hundreds and thousands. The whole reason why we are on Saidit now is one such big example.

[–]Greensquidsphone 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (45 children)

I was also told that ive never actually recieved death threats, which was a very cool and hip response.

And if you really want receipts and examples, you will have to wait until im not at work, and then wait longer for me to edit my address out of them, but sure.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

I mixed you with "GenderBender", who is female, not transwoman. Thought it was her answer, as it started from questions to her.

However, any receipts? And were those threats from GC women, feminists and for reason of you beaing trans?

[–]Greensquidsphone 3 insightful - 6 fun3 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 6 fun -  (43 children)

However, any receipts

I love repeating myself. Yes. I am at work. I will be for a while, my shifts are 12 hours long. When I get home I will edit out the doxxed addresses and post them.

And were those threats from GC women, feminists and for reason of you beaing trans?

Once again, I love repeating myself. Yes. I can say confidently some were. Again, a larger portion were alt right kiddos, but yes.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (42 children)

Thank you. However, I was asking not about personal receipts, but more general receipts, systematic ones, I am pretty sure in rare cases it is possible for some GC to be agressive (like adungitut in this sub or Posie Parker), after being tired of being threatened themselves. However, I can't see it happening in general, only locally and mostly in conservative places.

And any receipts of transgender organizations or groups being deplatformed by GC women?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Trans people are trying to destroy women in the law. Erasing 50% of the population under the law of the population is not okay. Destroying safeguarding for 50% of the population is not okay. We're protecting ourselves from a group of people who are destroying rights that women have been fighting for for centuries. Rights that are essential for women to participate in public life. Rights that are very precarious. I recommend reading "I am Malala" if you haven't already. All it takes is one batshit crazy misogynist group gaining enough power and women's rights go out the window. Any group that threatens women's right is a big fucking deal.

The horror of not allowing gender identity to replace sex in the law. The horror of not allowing men to violate women's boundaries. We're defending ourselves. You understand if trans activists actually respected women's boundaries and rights I would have no political beef with them right? I would still believe the entire concept of gender identity is sexist as fuck but I would tolerate the gender soul believers, much in the same way I tolerate religious people. What I will not tolerate is Trans activists destroying women's rights & boundaries and expecting us to lie down and take it. Hell no.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Free speech as a principle should matter for society at large. If someone can lose their job, receive death & rape threats for not agreeing with the status quo of the day their free speech isn't very free is it? The status quo will change. It always does and one day you may very well be on the wrong end of it.

I do not believe people should receive death & rape threats, but employers are already allowed to fire employees for hate speech on their personal social media, like racist and sexist speech. Why should transphobic speech be different? If you think people shouldn't be fired for transphobic speech, that's fine. But that also means people shouldn't be fired for racist and sexist speech outside of work.

Would you like it if a bunch of bigots banned every trans sub on reddit? Would you like it if 100s perhaps even 1000s of people tried to get you fired, because you said something in support of trans activism they didn't like?

Then I'd use another site and boycott reddit. Reddit is a private company and can do what they please.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So if I chose not to sell items in my store to transwomen, I’m not in the wrong because I’m a private business?

I suspect you’d call me a bigot if I did that.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

People should be free to say whatever they want in their private lives. Workplaces should not be allowed to compel their employees speech outside of working hours. That is insane. I wouldn't dream of trying to get a forced birther fired. I vehemently disagree with them, but I think they have just as much a right to earn an honest living as I do unmolested by braying mobs of zealots. You need to understand that everyone, absolutely everyone believes they are in the right. We need damn good hard ground rules for what is unacceptable suppression of free speech on the governmental level and the social level. If the religious zealots come into power again people could lose their jobs for saying they don't believe in god. The examples are endless. Forcing one groups personal beliefs on the rest of society is unacceptable period.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the religious zealots come into power again people could lose their jobs for saying they don't believe in god.

14 islamic countries still have such laws, and at least in 6 of them this can end up with death penalty for a non-believer or a believer in another god than theirs.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

People should be free to say whatever they want in their private lives. Workplaces should not be allowed to compel their employees speech outside of working hours.

I agree for the most part. I just think we shouldn't treat different forms of hate speech differently. If employers are allowed to fire people for racist and sexist speech, why should transphobic speech be treated different? Though yes people should be allowed to use hate speech without getting fired unless their job directly deals with people's welfare. If a judge goes on a racist rant on Facebook, you might wonder if he's giving higher sentences to black and brown defendants for the same crime. Granted, there should be oversight of these things anyway, like an independent commission making sure everyone gets a fair sentence and removing judges from the bench who don't practice this

That is insane. I wouldn't dream of trying to get a forced birther fired. I vehemently disagree with them, but I think they have just as much a right to earn an honest living as I do unmolested by braying mobs of zealots.

On an unrelated note, thank you for using the term forced birther. For anti-abortionists I use the term pro-birth instead of pro-life for anti-abortionists. If they really were about life, these same people would also be advocating for the best health care, for livable wages, for OTC birth control so you wouldn't need an abortion, for police reform, increasing the quality of education, and reducing poverty. But they're not. They just want the kid born. But when the kid is born, these same people complain about single mothers, mothers on welfare because you're always supposed to pull yourself up by the bootstraps and no matter what situation you find yourself in it's entirely your fault. The pro-birth movement was never about life. It's about misogyny and shaming women for their choices.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s not hate speech to say males are men and females are women.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Employers shouldn't be allowed to fire people for racist or sexist speech in their private lives either. All private speech should be protected. What is considered racist or sexist is extremely subjective. The same for transphobia. Women have been fired for saying men are not women. That is batshit.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But on other threads you've argued that people with your views should be able to control the words - and thus the thought - of others by having the the authority to "abolish" certain words from various languages.