GC: How to know the sex of an intersex person? Are intersex people not 100% male or female?

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[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

mods are deleting my threads

Because we answered your questions 10 times already. And you are still continuing to ask them, acting in bad faith and COMPLETELY ignoring if it has any moral justification as well by demanding from intersex people to out our conditions, even thought we already suffering from those conditions and need medical care and in general our life is harder because of this, but you demand to make our lives even worse becase YOU want something. Complete lack of empathy and narcissism - so similar to AGP males.

And if a woman takes hormones, removes her sex organs and a neopenis is implanted in her, she becomes 1) less female, more male, 2) less female, 3) neither male nor female, 4) male and female at the same time.

No, woman is same female regardless of how tall she is or if she has more or less hormones.

"Less female" is extremely offensive and in general such phrases are used as a slurs against intersex people.

Believe in "other sex" and "less female" or "less male" is what was leading to Intersex Genital Mutilation. So spreading this harmful believe is extremely dangerous and will lead to deaths or unneded surgeries, ruining lives of intersex people.

If sex is a spectrum, intersex and regular people can be some of these things, 1) male, 2) female, 3) more female, less male, 4) more male, less female, 5) neither male nor female, 6) male and female at the same time.

And that is why sex is a spectrum is very harmful concept and not needed in society. It will both harm a lot of people in healthcare, it will make much more confusing a lot of parts where sex is important - like sports or healthcare. And it will put a lot of pressure on people to conform.

This will mean that all those patriarchic societal pressures will become justified. So "man with smaller penis" will be less man and laughed out, that tall woman or shorter man will be considered as lesser and not completely a human. And so on. It is very dangerous concept which will only reinfoce gender roles. And it will have no biological justification, because spectrum of secondary characteristics is not making sexes a spectrum - so taller male will still need same treatment as shorter male, but different treatment than taller female. So such categorization makes no sense and only do harm.

Intersex are not male nor female?

Intersex are either male or female. We have told you this DOZENS of times. Why are you keeping ignoring all our answers?

It says that about 10% of XX males do not have sry.

Do not lie. It sayse next:

"In the remaining 10%, X inactivation spreads to include a portion of the SRY gene, resulting in incomplete masculinization."

So it still have SRY gene, just fragmented. Why are you ignoring EVERYTHING that not fitting your narrative? We are answering those questions again and again and again, but you keep asking them, even after they being answered.

This means you are asking them in bad faith. You don't want to hear answer to question, you want to hear what you believe yourself and not the truth.

This person says intersex people are nonbinary, neither man, nor woman, no matter what gametes or genitals they have and are a third sex: https://imgur.com/MERbsgr

No, we are either male or female. And we require treatment like other males or females. I require same pills for most of diseases as other females. My complications are similar to other females and not like males can have. I have Secondary PCOS because of my condition. Women with X0 Turner are losing ovaries - and only other women can lose ovaries, no male can have this problem. And so on.

Will you say that people with Congenital Heart Disease/Disorder are less human, because they have different developed heart? New species? Less male or female? Taller women are new sex? This makes no sense. If woman is taller she still have risk of PCOS, and if male is shorter - he can't have risk of PCOS.

So they are ignoring the definition of sex and just saying "those 0.18% of population are just other, abominations". Thanks!

Of course, if ignore definition of sex, then you can call anything sex. If any differences will mean new sex - then we will have 7.5 bilion sexes, because there does not exist two similar or exactly the same secondary or primary sex characteristics in 2 humans. This just makes no sense.

And why humans are special then? For every single species we are defining sex as this, but for humans we are defining sex as something else. Why? It reminds religion, which are believing that humans are special and following other rules than other universe.

Is sex determined by chromosomes or phenotype?

We answered this question to you 100 times.

I personally answered this question to you at least 3 times. EVERY DAMN TIME YOU JUST IGNORING IT. Maybe caps lock will work?

Sex is what reproductive role organism is aimed to fulfill, what type of genitals organism is aimed to support.

Turtles have same chromosomes for males and females, they are becoming male or female depending on temperature of egg when they were hatching. Yet we still always know who is male or female from them. Many rodents are looking exactly the same for males and females, yet we always know who is male and who is female. Clownfish can change sex depending on which gametes are ready - and yet we always know to WHAT sex clownfish changed right now.

Chromosomes and genitals are used in general for humans because in 99.981% of all cases they are 100% showing sex of a person. And if take in consideration SRY gene and inner sex organs (ovaries, uterus, testes, prostate, etc), then in 99.99991% of cases we can instantly say sex of a person. In the rest of 0.00009% there few more tests are needed to find sex, but even there it is possible.

It is possible to get a combination of uncompleted genes which will lead in sexless development, however - such kids are dying long before birth (at 1-2nd month of pregnancy), because human body can not develop without further instructions on becoming male or female - because the very vital organs are different for us (heart, lunghs, guts, skeleton, muscles, kidneys, etc), so they require different instructions from genes. So no living human is sexless.

And also why CAIS does not challenge binary sex?

Why should they?

If it's both chromosomes and phenotype, then people with CAIS are male and female at the same time.

Please let me know which one is true.

As it was answered at least 5 times to you - no, it is not true. And no, people with CAIS are not like transwomen as you asked in other thread.

People with CAIS in general looking like women, as they are completely insensitive to androgenes, so they started developing as females, yet they are lacking female reproductive organs and they are insensitive and can't react to male reproductive organs they have. Even in sports they are most likely not much stronger than females, but still stronger in some kinds of sports like powerlifting and running because they have different bone structure.

In general, we are accepting people with CAIS as women in society, but as males in healtcare. They were raised as normal and regular girls, everyone thinks they are girls/women, because in everything but inner biology they are like girls/women. So it would be extremely rude and unethical to out them to everyone but closest people and medical personel. Society is not perfect, so people with CAIS would be treated very badly when outed. CAIS happens in up to 0.0005% cases (it is hard estimate, most likely number is lower), but only males are struggling strongly from it, and they are around half of all cases, so CAIS is up to 0.00025% of births, with many not living past puberty in low developed countries.

Someone could have undeveloped female sex organs, but developed male sex organs. If sex is a binary, it would be really difficult to determine what their sex is when their sex organs are so mixed.

No, it would not difficult. Doctors who are studied this can say sex with few tests and can understand what one of 40 DSD conditions it is.

You understand that intersex conditions are extremely big outlier? We are only 0.18% births of population (and many not living long, so 0.18% of births will make it maybe 0.1% adults), and that 0.18% is for 40 different conditions. And only in around 0.0009-0.0018% of conditions genitals are ambigious or SRY gene is moved. That percent is much lower than percent of people born with Congenital Heart Disease/Disorder, lower than people born with 1 leg. So are we saying that people born with CHD are "completely fine and challenging how we define human species"? People born with intersex conditions all require medical treatment, because our conditions are not the norm and because of that we have a lot of health issues, which need to be treated.

1/2

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (16 children)

In general, we are accepting people with CAIS as women in society, but as males in healtcare. They were raised as normal and regular girls, everyone thinks they are girls/women, because in everything but inner biology they are like girls/women. So it would be extremely rude and unethical to out them to everyone but closest people and medical personel.

You say this is not like "transwomen" eventhough it is. Just because people with CAIS think they are female, doesn't mean they are female. That's gender identity for you.

They have no female sex organs? Then they are male, and I'm not using she/her or woman for people with CAIS.

If it's not rude to call a "transwoman" he/him, man, and male, it's not rude to call people with CAIS he/him, man and male.

You sound like trans right activists. "Trans people are not under an obligation to tell you their sex, you should address them by their pronouns and preferred gender if they pass, and it would be rude and disrespectful not to" has become "people with CAIS are actually male, but identify as women, so you should address them the way they want, and it would be rude and disrespectful not to".

People with CAIS do not have female sex organs. Even if they have boobs, and pass as a woman, they are not women. Just like a "trans woman" that passes is not a woman.

People with CAIS are either male or female. They don't get to lie they are female/women when they are not, and make me or others change the way we speak, just like "trans women" don't get to lie they are female/women.

I don't think you understand how morality works either. If I see someone that passes as a woman, and I use she/her for them, but later on find out they were a man, I would feel deceived. It's not different when males with CAIS do this, and make everyone think they are women/female when they are not.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

You ignored 99% of the post.

They have extremely rare condition that their phenotype is almost exacly life female one, and no one knows they are male including them until 16-20 years old. In general they even have labia and vulva which is not the same as cosmetic surgical

you sound like trans riggts activist

Are you trolling?

Plus - answer my questions. Why you ignored them? Then answer at least this one:

WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO HURT PEOPLE WITH EXTREMELY RARE AND PAINFUL MEDICAL CONDITION AND OUT THEM FOR HURT???

Unlike transwomen - people with CAIS never were raised as men, no one ever considered them as men, they never knew themselves they are males. And this fact always hurts them a lot - as they realizing they are infertile and everything so far was a lie.

Amd here comes you and laughing at medical condition that require treatment and asking to hurt even more.

change the way we speak

lie

You are clearly troll. WHY ARE YOU IGNORING 99% OF WHAT BEING TOLD?

I am blocking you from now on.

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (14 children)

I ignored the rest because you answered the questions and revealed people with CAIS are males. That was the only part that needed addressing.

I don't care that men with CAIS were raised to think they are women and everyone around them is so stupid to think they are women. My view is truth is better than lies even if it "hurts".

And yeah, please continue calling anyone who disagrees a troll. Amidst the caps locks and extreme shouting in your comment, I didn't once call YOU a troll. It's hilarious.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I explained you everything. All positions.

You ignored them and asked same question again.

You ignored all my queations.

You are not acting in good faith. Either you are troll, or completely dumb.

Good bye.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This person reminds me one discussion I had in this sub with one banned guy previously.

He was asking same question over and over, I was giving him big posts, with dozen links and researches, but he was just "admit you are wrong" and asking same question.

He just wanted compliance, he did not wanted to know the answer on questions.

This person looks absolutely like that guy. Such entitlement, lack of empathy and narcissism. "All will be my way, and if you disagree, I will annoy and attack you until you agree" - it is very common for abusive people to act like this. My father was gaslighting and attacking like this too. Even when he know he is wrong, he was day after day insisting we agree with him, and no other answer he was accepting.

It is "Do it to Julia" tactics from 1984, they will annoy you until you gave up and accept their terms, they don't care about truth and about people.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

No one can even know that they are male, including themselves, so your arguments are very stupid, and as was said - they aren't done in good faith and they are making no sense in real life. And those people are 5000 times (or 50000 times? My math is bad today) more rare than transgender people as well.

You are acting with her like an abusive person, so of course by your complete ignorance and repeating same questions over and over and ignoring her arguments you will make a person to write with caps lock or be mad at you. Such actions are either making you a troll or abusive narcissistic person who only wants things "your way". So it is showing you from a very bad side.

Discussion is when two people speaking and not when one is answering questions and other ignoring all answers and all questions. Sub is for discussions.

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

No one can even know that they are male, including themselves

Now we know.

But if you mean they themselves don't know, that's worse. Either doctors chopped the testes of males with CAIS (with or without family's request), and told the family who later on lied to the males with CAIS that they are women eventhough they are not, or doctors chopped the testes of males with CAIS and did not tell their family.

They (doctors, family, etc) should test whether or not someone has a DSD in hospitals before or after birth. Once they know someone has DSD, they should inform the family. The family shouldn't lie to the kids with DSD that they are a sex they are not, and should wait until they are in a stage of development capable of understanding this, so they can inform them of their actual sex. That way we won't be in this mess.

You are acting with her like an abusive person, so of course by your complete ignorance and repeating same questions over and over and ignoring her arguments you will make a person to write with caps lock or be mad at you. Such actions are either making you a troll or abusive narcissistic person who only wants things "your way". So it is showing you from a very bad side.

Discussion is when two people speaking and not when one is answering questions and other ignoring all answers and all questions. Sub is for discussions.

I didn't ignore. They answered my questions, and I understood. The only part that needed addressing, I addressed.

They didn't ask any questions for me to answer them.

I just disagreed on some things. It's so much easier to happily nod when ideas are brought forward, without disagreement. But I don't have better things to do at the moment and had to share my disagreements.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Now we know.

What do you mean "now we know"?

Without doctors checking them they don't know. They are looking like females and in general their body phenotype developed like female one. So there no reason to think they aren't females for anyone around.

Only when their health issues are hitting them, or when they are trying to find why they are infertile or why they have no menstruation at all - only then doctors making tests and finding out they have CAIS.

With PAIS or MAIS it is much easier, because they are not completely inresponsive to androgenes, so they are developing like males who have extra estrogene in them.

They (doctors, family, etc) should test whether or not someone has a DSD in hospitals before or after birth.

Why? It is invasive treatment that can harm kids. And CAIS is so super rare, that in a year there can be 0 births with this condition in country.

Intersex conditions that require fast treatment are visible when kid is born, so that is when tests are made. And those tests are made mostly to save lives to those intersex kids, because males and females require different treatment.

That way we won't be in this mess.

In what mess? There is no mess at all.

I didn't ignore. They answered my questions, and I understood. The only part that needed addressing, I addressed.

You not answered questions and you asked again what already was answered.

They didn't ask any questions for me to answer them.

Lies, she did asked you questions here and previously. And other people did same, but you never answering them.

You are misrepresenting what other people said or asked once again.

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

Why? It is invasive treatment that can harm kids.

Oh come on. The minute someone is born, they are naked, and their genitalia is seen. That's how doctors figure out they are male or female.

That's definitely "invasive", but should be done. We can't say "omg it harms kids to look at their genitals, what are you, you a pedo? omg!! omg omg".

You know what's invasive? Not doing tests, thinking someone with boobs is female eventhough they have testes and letting a lie continue around in circles. Yes. People with CAIS have testes, so even if they didn't do more tests, they would see the testes, and figure out it's a male. Usually the testes are removed because they are underdeveloped and could turn cancerous. Doctors KNOW all the CAIS individuals are male. But either they don't tell the family, or if they do the family lies to the kids with CAIS that they are girls eventhough they aren't.

Want to know what's even more invasive? Not doing tests, telling CAIS people they are women eventhough they aren't, and when they come to the realization, it's too late. Speaking for myself, if I learned someone I thought was a "she" was a he instead of a "she", I would feel totally disgusted for the deception.

Or I can imagine if I had DSD, but found out about this way later, I would be very very angry because it means I did not know myself and the issues I had, all because of people like you advocating for doctors not to do more tests at birth to find out if someone has DSDs.

Your intention is to not do tests, to keep things hidden until some day people with DSD figure out they have DSD. This is outright disgusting and horrible. Making people use false language because you think "it's invasive to look at the genes and organs of kids, to figure out they have DSD". You must be a liberal.

You DO understand everyone does tests later on right? All it takes is look at genes, or the inside of the body with a device to show if there are underdeveloped organs.

People like you are the reason we are in this mess right now.

Anyway, there is no way testing kids to see if they have DSDs is invasive, just like vaccinating kids is not invasive, or bathing kids is not invasive, or examining kids' blood to see if they have other diseases is not invasive.

In what mess? There is no mess at all.

It is a mess. You are too blinded to see it.

she did asked you questions here and previously. And other people did same, but you never answering them.

Lmfao what questions? "Why are you ignoring all the questions and answers" was the only one repetitively being asked. Please list the other questions here if there are any, because I saw none.

[–]BiologyIsReal[M] 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

The fact that you think individuals with CAIS have visible testes tells me that, at best, you only skimed the links I gave you. So, I've just baned you for 14 days. Use this time to actually read about what you have been talking about.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Oh come on. The minute someone is born, they are naked, and their genitalia is seen. That's how doctors figure out they are male or female.

No, doctors are making blood test or ultrasound during pregnancy, around 10-12th week of pregnancy. And when kid is born they are only checking by genitals if everything correct.

Both males and females with CAIS are looking like a female when born. To check if it is male or female for sure, they will need to do X-rays and blood test of a newborn. That's pretty invasive and does not worth it to do, because it will take a lot of resources and can hurt mother or kid, especially when speaking about such rare condition that majority of doctors and midwives will never ever encounter in their whole life and medical practice. And this condition is not causing any troubles until 16-20 years anyways, unlike some intersex conditions which require saving after birth, but those conditions do not have ambigious genitals looking like female ones - they have "penis-looking" genitals instead of "vulva-looking genitals" and they are starting to vomit and similar stuff.

You DO understand everyone does tests later on right? All it takes is look at genes, or the inside of the body with a device to show if there are underdeveloped organs.

But why do it for every kid if only one in few millions girls born will have it? Why do it on rest? It is not saving anyones lives and can do harm - either physical or psychological. Why are you so obsessed with this question about extremely rare condition?

People with CAIS have testes, so even if they didn't do more tests, they would see the testes, and figure out it's a male.

Those testes are underdeveloped and inside body, they are not seen when you see them naked. People with CAIS looking completely like a female when naked, they even have labia and underdeveloped clitoris. So you can't really say it is not a woman by such inspection.

Looks like you think that testes are outside and visible, that's why you are saying those ignorant and very weird things, I suppose. If you thought that testes are visible, then your posts starting to make at least a little sense, actually.

Your intention is to not do tests, to keep things hidden until some day people with DSD figure out they have DSD.

As I said, DSD which are posing danger to life are seen early and without tests. Most are found out before or during puberty because of abnormalities or other health issues. Almost all DSD conditions are unambigiously male or female looking as well. So you will never confuse them with other sex. Only very few of 40 conditions have any ambiguity to them.

It is a mess. You are too blinded to see it.

Which mess? That one in two millions women who have completely female phenotype, was raised as a girl and maybe not even knowing themselves about their condition, is someone with CAIS? I don't see any mess here. They aren't much stronger than other women, they can't impregnate, they do not have "male entitlement" nurtured, and it is impossible to tell that they have CAIS without special medical tests. Obviously if they are starting to date with someone, they should enclose it, and as far as I know - majority who know of their situation do.

because I saw none.

Just doing ctrl+F on "?" showed me there were few.

And you not answered my question:

What do you mean "now we know"?

We know what? And we - who? And why only now? This information about CAIS condition is known for long time now. Or you mean you think that woman you was chatting has CAIS? I think she said she had CAH, it is completely different condition, not even remotely related.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

No, doctors are making blood test or ultrasound during pregnancy, around 10-12th week of pregnancy. And when kid is born they are only checking by genitals if everything correct.

To check if it is male or female for sure, they will need to do X-rays and blood test of a newborn. That's pretty invasive and does not worth it to do, because it will take a lot of resources and can hurt mother or kid, especially when speaking about such rare condition

Violet, whilst I agree with your points overall, for the sake of others who will read this thread, I want to point out that screenings for the presence or absence of internal organs like undescended testes, ovaries, uterus, etc doesn't require X-rays; scanning by ultrasound works fine and is the customary method - and it's not invasive, nor does it cause any health risks like X-rays do.

Moreover, and more to the point, in many places in the world, mandatory blood tests on newborns are already done to check them for a variety of genetic disorders.

In the US, for example, each of the 50 states (as well as in the District of Columbia and I believe in the territories) have laws in place that make it mandatory by law for blood to be drawn from newborns' foot shortly after birth so it can be determined if the child has various very rare genetic disorders. Exactly which disorders are tested for varies a bit depending on the jurisdiction.

Here is the list of the disorders newborns are currently tested for by law in New York state. https://www.wadsworth.org/programs/newborn/screening/screened-disorders

As you can see, it includes testing for one DSD, namely the specific type of Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia caused by

CAH1, CYP21 deficiency, Hyperandrogenism, nonclassic type, due to 21-hydroxylase deficiency

Congenital adrenal hyperplasia (CAH) is a group of inherited endocrine disorders of impaired steroid hormone production by the adrenal glands. The synthesis of cortisol in the adrenal gland requires the production of a number of different enzymes, the lack of which will result in CAH. In 95% of CAH cases, 21-hydroxylase deficiency causes CAH and therefore newborn screening tests for the deficiency in this enzyme. In 21-hydroxylase deficiency CAH, the adrenal glands produce too much male sex hormone (androgens) which cause many of the symptoms of CAH. Additionally, in severe forms of CAH, the resultant lack of cortisol and aldosterone can cause life threatening complications. Cortisol is important for the body’s stress response and for controlling blood sugar levels. Aldosterone is important for regulating sodium balance in the body.

Below is the listing of the genetic disorders newborns in the state of Connecticut, which is next door to NY, are tested for, as well as a list that groups the disorders together by type. It includes CAH too, though Connecticut's website doesn't go into the same detail as the NY website does:

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DPH/NBS-Forms-and-Documents/Conditions_alphabetical_by_disease_01-2020.pdf

https://portal.ct.gov/-/media/DPH/NBS-Forms-and-Documents/Conditions_by_classification_01-2020.pdf

All the genetic conditions that the various states in the US do mandatory testing of newborns for are conditions in which early diagnosis and intervention is necessary to guarantee the child's survival in infancy or to stave off severe, irreversible damage to his or her physical health that can lead to disability and early death down the line. Such as cystic fibrosis, sickle cell and severe combined immune deficiency or SCID (aka "bubble boy disease").

However, even where such conditions are sex-linked, as in the case of SCID, testing to determine a child's sex chromosomes is not part of mandatory newborn blood screening protocols in any jurisdiction in the US.

From the viewpoint of practicality, in the US (and many other countries today) testing all newborns' blood for genetic anomalies known to cause various DSDs is possible and affordable - just as testing for any of thousands of other genetic anomalies that cause or can cause a host of other medical conditions is today. However, testing for all these other conditions is not done because of costs and many ethical issues. In order to justify adding CAIS - or any other DSD - to the mandatory newborn screening done in the USA today, it would have to be known exactly what genetic anomaly/ies cause it - and it would have to shown that unless diagnosed at birth, the condition can or will lead to death, will greatly reduce the child's expected life span, or is sure to cause severe physical health problems that can't be addressed and ameliorated if the condition is diagnosed at a later date in life.

CAIS does not fit this criteria. Nor, AFAIK, do other DSDs except for the salt-wasting form of CAH that u/ColoredTwice has and which US newborn screening programs already include as a matter of course. That's the one DSD that can be fatal if not diagnosed and treated early. As you noted, most DSDs do not require any medical intervention in childhood. And the possible presence of any DSD where early intervention might be something recommended or considered would be indicated by the appearance of the child's genitals and thus lead to further medical investigation and diagnosis.

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

And when kid is born they are only checking by genitals if everything correct.

Which I mentioned. And is "invasive", but we should do it.

Both males and females with CAIS are looking like a female when born. To check if it is male or female for sure, they will need to do X-rays and blood test of a newborn. That's pretty invasive

Since checking a newborn's genitals is as "invasive", but doctors should do it, doing x-rays and blood tests on newborns is "invasive" but they should be done.

And as I said, it's funny you use the word "invasive". People literally bathe newborns, and touch their naked bodies while bathing them ... You can't get any more "invasive" than that. But x-rays and blood tests are where you arbitrarily draw a line? Yeah I'm not buying that. If people get to bathe newborns, then x-rays and blood tests are nothing compared to it.

But why do it for every kid if only one in few millions girls born will have it? Why do it on rest? It is not saving anyones lives and can do harm - either physical or psychological. Why are you so obsessed with this question about extremely rare condition?

Eh. CAIS are all males. There are no "females" with CAIS. That's what I learned. None of the people with CAIS have internal female sex organs. And they. Have. Testes. Which doctors usually remove because they are underdeveloped and turn cancerous.

They should test everyone for whether they have DSDs or not, because I think it is worth it. I can just imagine talking to someone, who I think is one sex, but turns out is another sex. That's so "invasive". Making me and others use false language because to you these people pass as the opposite sex, and you think "it's invasive to test on newborns".

That one in two millions women who have completely female phenotype, was raised as a girl and maybe not even knowing themselves about their condition, is someone with CAIS?

CAIS are male. Not female.

Just because they think they are female, or pass as a female on the outside doesn't make them female. You say they are no different because they can't impregnate ... so you're saying males who have no penis or testes are not different from females ... so they are females ...

By that logic, a "trans woman" who chopped his dick and testes off, and on the outside totally passes as a woman due to hormones, is a female because he can not "impregnate". Do you hear yourselves? CAIS individuals are males with no penis and testes. Their "female phenotype" means boobs, and maybe vulva. They have no internal female sex organs. They are not females.

It's better to test on newborns to know if they have DSDs so people don't go lying to kids they are a sex they are not, like the case with CAIS who think they are women eventhough they aren't. It doesn't give the kids identity crisis. It doesn't make other people use false language when referring to the kids with DSDs. And when these kids grow up to date, they don't have to test then. They already know they have DSDs and what their actual sex is so they can tell others about it when dating.

Just doing ctrl+F on "?" showed me there were few.

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