GC: Is there such a thing as "transgender"?

submitted by Tea_Or_Coffee from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

May I ask what your definition of 'gender' is and what you mean by 'gender is based on sex'?

I understand your other arguments, so I will try to answer these questions.

Answer, please:

a transwoman knows he’s a woman/has a female gender identity because he felt “out of place” in his body, is drawn to “feminine” things, and didn’t connect with what other boys/men tended to connect with?

another male who likes the same things as the first, but is “comfortable” with his body and his sex,

And also a female who feels “comfortable” with her body and sex, but just wasn’t interested in traditionally “feminine” things

Do they all have the same gender identity? Why or why not?

The common answer is they do not have the same 'gender identity'. A man who likes 'feminine' things and feels out of place in his body has a 'gender identity' that does not correspond with his sex.

But a man who likes 'feminine' things and feels comfortable in his own body would be 'cisgender' as his 'gender identity' corresponds with his sex.

The difference in 'gender identity' comes with comfort with one's own sex and body parts. If one feels distressed that they are a certain sex, they are said to have a different 'gender identity' than those who are comfortable with their sex - aka 'cisgenders'.

There are 'trans medicalists' who believe gender identity does not have anything to do with stereotypes, because a 'trans woman' can be 'masculine', and a 'trans man' can be 'feminine'.

Whenever I asked them 'what about someone who feels they are another race', they have said being a certain race is not genuinely distressing to someone, and noone is born with a brain that is similar to the brain of the race they identify with, while people who have 'gender dysphoria' genuinely feel distressed when it comes to their sex and body parts, and their brains are similar to the brains of the 'gender' they identify with.

What do you think of those claims?

You just keep mentioning what trans people think or mean-do you genuinely not understand that believing something doesn’t make that something true or even logical?

'X believes therefore it's true' is a fallacy, and you're right on that. I'm trying to figure out the errors in 'genderism' by sharing the beliefs of the 'trans' people I have seen so far.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

-I don’t have a personal definition of the word gender. The word gender has a definitive meaning. That’s how it’s supposed to be used. Google it, that’s what I mean. The definition answers your question about how gender is based on sex. When I say google it, I mean literally just google “gender definition” not “what does gender mean to trans people”. Just look up the meaning of the word itself.

-As for your answer- why is feeling discomfort because of your sex despite nothing being wrong with your body a sense of identity, rather than mental illness? Feeling discomfort in your sexed body gives you no insight whatsoever into what it is to have the body of the opposite sex, so how does someone identify with something they have no experience with?

You’re describing mental illness, and calling it an identity. But even if it were an identity, that identity is rooted in their head and not reality, and has nothing to do with the opposite sex, other than them coming to the conclusion that it does with no real basis.

  • If transmeds are using the term gender identity, they seem to be referring to dysphoria. Dysphoria is a mental condition, it’s really mentally unhealthy to identify yourself as your mental condition. But who are they to tell you that being a certain race isn’t distressing to some people, but being a certain sex is? That doesn’t even answer your question, it’s just them brushing off someone else’s experience while expecting theirs to be taken seriously. And as I’ve said so many times- brain sex has been debunked. The claim to have a brain similar to the gender they “identify” with (which is not actually a gender, just the stereotypes and associations they’ve placed on the opposite sex) is false. Again, as I said, just because they say something doesn’t make it true or factual. They want it to be true, it’s not. That’s why they can’t give answers that aren’t circular, sexist, based on pseudoscience, or contradictory.

So, I don’t care what they tell you or they say abut it, what is it that you think? Your personal opinion, not a collection of the opinions of people who desperately want things to be true that just aren’t.

You’re never going to figure out the errors if all you’re doing is examining what they say and think. You find the errors by thinking for yourself. Does it make sense to you? Is it based in logic and fact to you? Does it sound sexist? Does everything they say line up into one logical, comprehensive and cohesive ideology that doesn’t contradict itself? Do the definitions they offer for words actually explain what something is clearly?

We don’t need you to share their beliefs to discuss things, we need to know yours. Otherwise this is kind of pointless and that’s one of the reasons you often get so much sarcasm or impatience on your posts.

You should be telling us what you think, instead of constantly referencing their thoughts.

[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

I googled 'gender'. Google defines 'gender' as 'either of the two sexes (male and female), especially when considered with reference to social and cultural differences rather than biological ones. The term is also used more broadly to denote a range of identities that do not correspond to established ideas of male and female'

Here 'gender' is defined as two completely different things. It can mean sex. It can mean social and cultural roles associated with one sex. Which is what trans right activists refer to when they use 'gender'. They believe there are certain roles given to one sex, and if a man participates in roles associated with women in a culture, he becomes socially/culturally a woman, while if a woman participates in roles associated with men in a culture, she becomes socially/culturally a man (thoughts?).

I don't see how this definition of 'gender' proves 'gender' is based on sex. It can be, but another definition of it separates it from sex, and refers to the stereotypes, and gender roles that GC fight against.

what is it that you think? Your personal opinion, not a collection of the opinions of people who desperately want things to be true that just aren’t.

Right now I'm leaning towards the view that 'there isn't a gender identity'. Though at first when I posted in this sub, I believed in 'gender identity'.

That doesn't mean I have no questions left. But I am thankful to you, u/MarkTwainiac u/BiologyIsReal u/SnowAssMan and everyone else I did not get to mention who tolerated me and answered my questions until now.

[–]BiologyIsReal 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Google is pretty biased towards transgenderism. If you want to read alternative viewpoints, I'd suggest to use another search engine. Also, books are your friends. It's good to hear I've not been writing in vain (as I feared), but there is so much I or other users can explain in a forum post.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s actually a good point. I don’t even use google, I just have a habit of saying « google it » instead of « look it up »