GC: are there any QT/trans people that you like and admire and QT/trans: are there any GC people you like and admire?

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[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

I don't try to police what people can say on Ovarit. As I mentioned, I only ever report for slurs.

But it bothers me when all trans women are tagged as evil predators. Some people there have contempt for trans women that goes beyond anything they post about males in general. That's what I have a problem with. There's at least one poster who even admits that she hates and despises trans women. And it's a bad look for the rest of us. Pro-trans people read that and think GC women really do have a personal vendetta against trans women, even though the vast majority of us do not.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

So we can hate men without needing NAMALT?

Who do these few women need be silenced so we look better to the very men who want women’s rights to be taken away, and the anti-feminist supporters of those men? Are TRA going to respect women are humans if we improve our optics?

Why not just let them be angry? We are never going to look acceptable to men anyway because we say no to them.having bad optics is the least of feminisms issue with the same group that regularly threatens rape and murder.

It’s laughable that these ridiculous men can look at a thousand of their own being predators and say b-b-but not all of us! Yet if they see one or two women angry on ovarit, feminism is spoiled for everyone.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

They can be angry. I just don't think it's right to be hateful. Not just for optics, but because it genuinely is not right to hate all members of a group based on one characteristic.

And men in general don't need our protection, but trans people are still a marginalized group. I will never defend abusers and narcissists. God knows we do see examples of trans people who are problematic, even dangerous. But it's not all of them. If someone says all trans women are evil pedophiles and rapists, they are objectively wrong.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Men are hateful towards us all the time, transgender activists are physically intimidating us, threatening with rape and death in the internet.

Sometimes we may be angry too, why they can be hateful towards us with actions harming us, but we can't be hateful when venting among ourselves?

Why we need to be kind and to be nice even to people who openly wishing us to die and then after wishing us to die - they enter our safe spaces?

I am not in favour of being hateful either, but I would not police other women "to be kind and nice".

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with you it's more important to be honest than to be kind. Look where being kind and moderate got our old sub! Banned off Reddit. I'm not saying we should tone police. It's okay to be angry. I just don't think it's okay to be outright hateful and bigoted. I have not seen much of that on Ovarit but I have seen it sometimes, and those are the only instances I'm complaining about.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

And when they say that, are they simply venting because they have seen instance after instance of transgender males being predatory? Seems extremely likely.

They individuals you’re talking about likely know very well that it is not every single individual transgender person the same way we all know it’s not every single male.

What does transgender people being marginalised have to do with it?

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

marginalised

I wish LGB people or women were so marginalised. So laws would be changed so easily, so just speaking wrongly to you can make speaker go to jail, so all big organizations and political parties will throw all other marginalised groups under the bus to support you and spend billions on your cause.

All marginalised groups are dreaming to be so privileged.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just read about a young man beheaded by his brother and cousins because the young man was gay. How’s that for marginalised.

Not often marginalised groups can get resources removed from the people they hate a la rape shelter door-rats.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

I think at least one of them is not just venting. She actually means it and says she means it. I won't name names, but it's impossible to miss her.

Non-trans men have social power. Trans women (except for the late-transitioning AGPs) do not necessarily have a privileged position in society. Not historically, and not in many parts of the world now. A lot of trans women are still HSTS transsexuals. Many of them do not come from backgrounds where they were accepted or were able to access education, housing, and jobs.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So one woman is going to ruin it for us all so she must be silenced? Or she’s just morally wrong to hate a group?

So these men lack some privileges because of homophobia or poverty and this relates to women not being allowed to hate groups how exactly? Sorry, this is like, explain like I’m five territory of not understanding how the two are related.

Are disadvantaged men such as some transwomen exempt from being disliked due to their struggles? Does that mean red headed men with a club foot or a palsy are also in need of a NAMALT defense?

I come from a background of poverty, abuse, and neglect. Does this mean I can undermine the rights of a group and still get cheerleaders defending me? Not all autistic Romani abuse survivors are like that?

I don’t get it. I don’t get why this one woman is such an issue and needs a voice of moderation to correct her. TRA wasn’t about to start respecting women until she posted something. We could lick their boots and still get told we’re crotchety old hags who should get raped to death. Her rage has no impact on things even if she’s wrong.

Transwomen not all being agp doesn’t change the fact that women are having rights taken away to accommodate both groups of males. HSTS is not an automatic exemption from perpetuating harmful ideas about women.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

I think you're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say she should be silenced. I said it bothers me. I also said I don't think it's morally right. I have only ever reported people for using slurs that are explicitly against the rules.

We found out the hard way on the old debate sub that we can try to be nice and kind and accommodating, and it is never enough for those who hate us and want to silence us. Look at how J.K. Rowling is treated as the devil even though she is kind and compassionate. It doesn't matter how nice we are. Certain TRAs will hate us regardless because they hate what we say, not how we say it. However, I don't think that gives us a license to just be horrible human beings with no standards for how we talk about trans people.

I do not consider trans women the enemy. They are not the enemy. Gender is the enemy. I don't believe trans women should have special rights, but as long as they are respectful, decent people, they deserve to be treated with the same dignity and respect as any other human being. Saying all of them are evil predators is simply untrue. Hating them is not justified if it is based purely on their trans status and not their conduct. Not just because it's bad optics, but because it's morally incorrect.

I mean, we're all free to disagree of course. This is just how I personally feel.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Let’s agree to disagree. I find NAMALTing other women far worse than saying something untrue about a group that is mostly harmful in anger.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

I'm cool with that. We can agree to disagree.