All: Why do a lot of trans people insist that being non binary or trans has nothing to to with stereotyoes, and then suddenly it really is about stereotypes?

submitted by questioningtw from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]anxietyaccount8 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (53 children)

Sometimes, I've seen TRAs talk about variations in sexuality and gender presentation that actually make a lot of sense. They say "of course a transwoman can be masculine, just like a cis woman can. Of course a transman can be feminine." But in reality, they don't practice what they preach. Many people don't seem to understand this nuance at all. They think that "women" are always completely comfortable being feminine and conforming. And "straight" just means boring.

On the subreddit r/GenderCynical, they occasionally call out GC people who just seem conservative and say "see? These so-called radfems support trad gender roles, but then they claim that we do that." But this is dishonest. They never take responsibility for their own movement making GNC people think they're trans.

And, if a trans person acts/dresses like their biological sex, why would they identify as trans in the first place? Well, maybe because they have body dysphoria. But the trans community isn't consistent with that either.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 5 insightful - 6 fun5 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 6 fun -  (52 children)

But gc isn't for gnc males. Only as far as saying this person is good for not saying they are female.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (51 children)

GC doesn't support the misogyny that passes for male gender nonconformity because femininity is a patriarchal construct created to oppress women. Unsurprisingly, most gender nonconforming men just have a fetish for imitating the misogynistic caricatures and the patriarchal hierarchies that their worldview revolves around. Remove their male supremacist ideology, and you lose the motivation to be "gender nonconforming"

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

This is a gotcha position for all gnc men. The only forms of male gnc behaviour are forms that gnc women find acceptable for gnc women. A logic trap that even people outside of the debate recognise.

[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

You're saying something is a logic trap without actually explaining why. Can you actually explain or is this going to end as usual at just saying things and praying they're true by virtue of posting them?

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

What male gender non conformity is acceptable to you?

[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

So, you have no intention of actually rationalising your claim as usual? I guess it's my fault for expecting the programming to glitch when it's been working so well.

Ok, maybe you'll want to answer a different question: why do you and QT make claims you know are full of hot air when you know you'll have to do this humiliating little dance around it every time and how do you keep your dignity from intervening?

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

My question was meant to progress the debate. To find out what you thought.

[–]adungitit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

If you say something, and you are asked to rationalise it, awkwardly derailing and avoiding the questions because you know you're full of hot air is not "progressing the debate". Debate cannot be had if one side knows they have no argument and instead expends all their efforts into trying to avert attention from the fact that they have no argument, hoping that this will somehow make it seem like they're not actually wrong just because they ignore and disengage from what proves them wrong.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

To be honest you are the person here I find the most difficult to debate.

It comes across as a list of accusations.