GC: How does one best cultivate self-love and self-acceptance?

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

This could be a general question, but I would be curious to know what people may suggest in the context of trying to prevent others from being trans or transitioning, and making peace with who and what they are.

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Internal rather than external validation for starters.

The ability to value yourself even when faced with difficulty or rejection without needing another party to assign value to you. Imo this is desperately lacking. When you have a bad day a healthy adult is meant to be able to say ‘I did my best’ and move on.

Instead we have a generation of adults who try and strip women of rights because they lack the ability to say ‘I’m a woman to me and that’s enough’

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The ability to value yourself even when faced with difficulty or rejection without needing another party to assign value to you. Imo this is desperately lacking. When you have a bad day a healthy adult is meant to be able to say ‘I did my best’ and move on.

Love this! I think for sure focusing on internal validation rather than external would be incredibly important to learning to love and accept oneself. I was just talking with mom today about growing because of dealing with adversity and making mistakes, and how the people I admire and who inspire me most all deal with or have dealt with awful things and still kept moving towards their dreams--they didn't or don't let bad experiences or mistakes or adversity stop them from living their lives.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Its an absolute necessity for people to learn to validate themselves. It’s pretty crucial for healthy self esteem.

Requiring so much external validation of their gender leads me to believe that most transgender people absolutely recognise how ridiculous queer theory and gendered identities are. It simply would not require such extensive participation from others if it was truly such a deep seated part of themselves. Having the performance validated by an audience delays having to face the real world.

I draw a lot of comparisons to Anorexia and I’ve found another here. If you reduce your world to a microcosm focussed entirely on something like gender or weight you protect yourself from the larger world and all it’s trials.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's hard to deny the superficiality of some transgender and TRA narratives and habits. There is a lot of focus on appearance, which makes sense, but one could (and maybe often does) get carried away with that and that could become the primary or sole focus a person may have then in life. You're probably right about that need for extensive participation from others, there is something inherently insecure about that. Gender dysphoria is experienced somewhat differently by everyone, but it's rather extreme and likely indicative of other issues if a person feels they must try to control reality to such an extent. The comparison to anorexia is quite apt, too, I think.

[–]censorshipment 12 insightful - 6 fun12 insightful - 5 fun13 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

I identified as a guy twice in my life: during my teens and again during my mid-20s. After seeing "Boys Don't Cry" in the late 90s... I was too scared to lie about being a guy... I thought I'd get raped and murdered like "Brandon Teena". My parents did what they were supposed to do... I was in therapy, but nothing the therapist said mattered.

During college, I was quite happy being a lesbian... but then a guy stalked me from work, and I felt like he wouldn't have been into me if I were identifying as a guy.

During my longest relationship, I was abused by my older girlfriend, and my dysphoria got much worse. I was drinking a lot to cope with her controlling me. She was like an abusive boyfriend even though she was very feminine on the outside. I started identifying as a man to feel empowered... and she stopped abusing me. But one thing she did right was make me feel like a woman sexually... she ate me out so damn good that I got in touch with my womanhood. Lmao. I'd been in several relationships before I met her, but no woman was bold enough to dominate me sexually.

So now during my 30s, I've accepted that I'm a gnc gay woman... I am not and will never be a straight man.

My "gender identity" is completely tied to my sexual orientation. I cannot just identify as a man and still date the type of women I date, women who prefer women. I'd have to try to pass as a straight man in the straight dating world which wouldn't work. I honestly wonder how "Billy Tipton" passed for decades. I wouldn't be able to hide my body in a relationship... I loveeee being nude lol I'm sure my nudes are on several websites that creepy men downloaded from Reddit.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Oh wow--what a life you've had already! I'm sorry it's been so hard and you've had to endure so much pain and abuse. I hope this isn't insensitive, and I am sorry to the moon and back if it is, but it sounds like such hardships helped you learn to love yourself and find peace in being the person you are. Do you think that is true at all? For me, I feel like experiences like that have helped me grow more as a person and learn how to love myself a little more. Practically speaking, how do you think a person could best try to find that confidence in themselves that you have found for yourself?

[–]censorshipment 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

With logic, to be frank. It's not possible to be confident and trans, imo... "transitioning" is a very bright indication of very low self-esteem. Being proud to be trans screams being ashamed to be "cis" i.e. your true form. Just my transphobic opinion.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's a very interesting way of looking at these things. Do you think it's not possible to be trans and have self-love? Or do you think that transition itself is antithetical to self-love?

My only contention with this 'transphobic opinion' (that made me lol btw) is that I don't believe transition is necessarily a changing of a person for everyone, but rather maybe more akin to 'coming out' as gay, lesbian and bi people might. So, less of a change and more of a dropping a charade or no longer holding oneself back from being themselves. For me, I saw it as an act of self-love and self-kindness because I learned the hard way that I really wanted to live, which wasn't likely to go on much longer otherwise. And it was less of a change and more just letting me be myself, or at least that's how I see it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think cultivating self love and acceptance is truly an individual journey. However, if someone has a mental illness that makes them hate their body for no reason other than their sex, I don’t think it’s as simple as self love and acceptance. It would be more about finding a way to best treat the mental illness. There’s a huge difference between low self esteem and dysphoria.

I think trans people should treat any other mental health issues they have before they start hormones or have surgeries, and as I’ve stated, I think they should have to acknowledge that they are the sex they were born, their sex can’t and won’t change, and that males aren’t women and females aren’t men. But as far as alternatives to transition- dysphoric people would have to be willing to be treated in other ways. Just as with any mental condition, it can take years even decades to find proper treatment. And I don’t think dysphoric people are generally willing to endure a trial and error attempt at finding alternatives. To be fair, if someone is suffering deeply, I understand why they’d jump to a method that they think will give them what they want, I just don’t think it’s an effective treatment for a mental condition. It seems to feed it, rather than cure it. And it ironically seems to be the exact opposite of self love and acceptance. If you have to change everything about yourself to love yourself, do you actually love yourself? Or are you trying to turn into a different person?

I have a lot of opinions about transitioning, and I see a lot of red flags about the whole process, but I don’t think it’s my or anyone’s business to try to prevent someone from transitioning as long as they are an adult, so I don’t know that I can attempt to answer that part. I feel like someone who wants to transition should do whatever they want to their body- I just don’t think that anyone else should be required to participate in any capacity unless they choose to. Others shouldn’t have to share spaces if they don’t want to (sex based- not general public spaces), sex based rights and sports etc should remain so, legal sex change shouldn’t be a thing, we shouldn’t be forced to not speak about sex, sexuality, and biology etc in a way that rings false to us, we shouldn’t be forced to use pronouns- all of that stuff. Because if transition is a solution to a mental health issue, it shouldn’t have to impact other people’s lives or rights.

I find a lot of aspects of transitioning problematic and I don’t think it does anything to cure the mental aspect, other than alleviating discomfort, but my stance is really just becoming: do what you want to your own body, but understand that transition is your own personal thing, and it doesn’t have to mean anything to anyone else, and don’t expect or demand anyone to see or treat you as anything other than the sex you were born.

That is what I think trans people should make peace with - that transition may very well be irrelevant to others, and they need to respect that.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Very interesting answer and perspective, thank you. Part of why I asked the question is because I've seen GC people and others talk about self-love and acceptance as being solutions (or playing a part in solutions) to gender dysphoria and cross-sex identity, which I like and agree with somewhat, but mental illness isn't so easily talked away, so I appreciate that you acknowledge that.

One of my earliest posts here was about alternative treatment for gender dysphoria or transsexualism, of which there doesn't seem to really be anything established. You're probably right that many if not most people with gender dysphoria wouldn't be willing to endure trial and error attempts to alleviate or cure it when transitioning seems to be the only established and encouraged form of treatment. I sort of suspect that some issues for some people may not be able to be dealt with until a person does transition or undergo surgery, which seems like the case for me--trauma being unable to be addressed until after having had surgery and live more "normally". I agree with the point you make about changing oneself to love oneself.

There shouldn't be any imposition or unreasonable accommodations made on behalf of a dysphoric or trans person; it really shouldn't have to impact anyone else's life or rights. Accepting one's reality seems like it could be an act of self-love or compassion, and I feel like that makes life better for anyone, but especially for someone who has difficulty with accepting such a truth as one's own sex.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah I never really understand when other gc people say self love and acceptance are solutions to dysphoria. Dysphoria is a mental condition, I don’t know that any one with any type of mental condition overcomes their condition through self love. I think self love and acceptance can certainly help some people cope with and manage it, but it’s not going to fix anything on its own. I think maybe they mean in addition to therapy and other forms of treatment. To me when I say acceptance I mean accepting the reality of your sex and what that means, and maybe even accepting for some people that while hormones and possibly surgery may alleviate discomfort, it’s not necessarily going to guarantee they pass as the opposite sex. I say it to mean accepting the reality of their circumstances, not so much as self acceptance. I just think it’s important that anyone who’s going to endure surgeries and commit to hormones that they’ll need to take for years should be in a place mentally where they can acknowledge facts, it just seems healthier in the long run.

I remember your first post, it lead to some interesting conversations and great observations. I totally get why many wouldn’t be willing, but I sincerely hope that in the near future alternative treatments are found for dysphoria, I just think the entire concept of transition is a huge gamble for anyone committing to it, and then there are always those stories of people who felt worse after or had regret (not implying that’s typical, just that once some physical things are done there’s no undoing, and that’s why I wish there was a better way to treat the mental without altering the physical).

Eta- I also wonder about the long term health effects of taking hormones for so long. Every single one of the (few) trans people I know personally all have health issues that they developed after transitioning, and I wonder if the hormones have something to do with that.

I can’t really comment on whether or not I agree that some things can’t be treated until after transitioning, I have no idea what it feels like to want to transition or what circumstances you experienced that couldn’t be dealt with until after- I just worry that someone may transition, then deal with the stuff they couldn’t deal with before and have regrets or view themselves differently. It’s the permanence of it that makes me wish all other efforts would be exhausted and any other or underlying issues dealt with first. It seems like even if you just take the hormones and nothing else, undoing that if you change your mind is complicated and takes time, and I guess I just think I’d prefer someone be able to make that decision from the healthiest mental state possible. But I also believe that it works for some people the way it worked for you.

Qt always laugh reacts when I talk about accepting reality, or they say things like « I use different definitions « or « I see things differently » but what you said is exactly what I mean by it, it’s not for the sake of people who aren’t trans, it’s for the person transitioning. I honestly think it would be beneficial to be able to acknowledge facts backed up by biology, because maybe that will help when the world doesn’t always speak, react or behave the way a trans person may wish, and maybe it would help with triggers and feeling invalidated. To me, admittedly on the outside looking in, I don’t see how a trans person can experience self love or acceptance if they can’t handle facts or be honest with themselves about their own bodies and sex (as well as sexuality, particularly other people’s sexuality)

Side note: oh my god can someone please tell me why my quotation marks are coming out like this « « ?! I don’t understand but I hate it!

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I say it to mean accepting the reality of their circumstances, not so much as self acceptance.

So much this. It applies to so many serious physical and mental health conditions, especially in the long term. It can be difficult af, but what are the alternatives?

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How does one best cultivate self-love and self-acceptance?

Sardonic but sincere answer: through hard fucking work. Society at large and the universal advertising juggernauts are aligned against us all, and they sell gender as shamelessly as they sell everything else.

More nuanced answer: I wouldn't presume to try to prevent an adult from transing. If asked, I'd advise clinically assessing for the usual suspects first (anxiety, depression, bipolar, personality disorders, ASD, ADHD) before focusing on GD as the primary disorder and pursuing treatment.

In a way, cultivating love and self-acceptance is a personal discipline; I don't know that there's ever a point where we can say "Cool! Achievement unlocked! All done." A huge part of the process includes coming to terms with the limits of reality, which sucks, and healing trauma, which also sucks, but . . . what are the alternatives? IMO, any real improvement in agency and quality of life is worth it.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well, that's a blunt and to-the-point answer! And I think you're absolutely right about that. As I said to Worried and as Censorshipment's comment illustrates, it probably wouldn't be something to be so grateful for when one starts loving oneself if it were something so easy peasy to do.

In a way, cultivating love and self-acceptance is a personal discipline; I don't know that there's ever a point where we can say "Cool! Achievement unlocked! All done." A huge part of the process includes coming to terms with the limits of reality, which sucks, and healing trauma, which also sucks, but . . . what are the alternatives? IMO, any real improvement in agency and quality of life is worth it.

I was complaining to my best friend last year about all these impossible things I needed to do for work and how I was overwhelmed and had no idea how I was going to do it all, so I was asking for her advice and she said I just had to do it: stop thinking about it and whining about how hard it is, and just do it by taking some kind of action to start and continue from there. I didn't really like her advice when she gave it, but she was totally right. And you're right that one might have to do work that sucks in order to improve their life, but it really is well worth it.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've never liked that kind of advice when I've gotten it myself. In point of fact I've often hated it. But it's turned out, again and again, to be inescapably true.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just want to point out that self-acceptance and self-love are two different things. In trying to cultivate/achieve them, I think it's important to keep that in mind.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

That's very true, good point!

[–]Penultimate_Penance 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Go out and do shit that makes you proud of yourself.

Learn how to play an instrument. Get into a sport. Take a class, learn a new skill, get a certification, graduate. Be a good friend. Volunteer. Go on hikes and enjoy the view. Join a hobby group. And spend less time on the computer. Too much time online tends to encourage an unhealthy amount of rumination.

Live a full, rich life and mild dysphoria at least will be an afterthought, because you have more important, more fun things to do. For severe dysphoria, psychological help will likely be needed.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I like your spirited answer! Quite honest and intuitive, it seems like doing these kinds of things really does help with loving oneself. Trying new things seems really important in life, I feel like it's impossible not to grow from that. I agree with what you say about online time.

I would like to think you're right about gender dysphoria, it's optimistic!

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think detoxing from society and society's expectations is a good start. Getting in touch with nature and your place within nature. I often feel alienated from others of my biological sex and from what society expects from females, but I view that as a problem with society, not with me personally. There's nothing wrong with how I was born. My body is not wrong. My body is not a moral defect or failing. My genitals and chromosomes do not speak to my character or indicate that I am somehow weak or inferior by virtue of possessing them, which is what society tries to get women to believe.

In the long run, we're all born, we all live, and we all die. We're all human beings trying to make our way as best we can. Sometimes we have to survive this world any way we can. I believe many people are driven to transition by the rigidity of society and the negative stereotypes that are associated with both sexes. I don't think that's ideal, but I don't blame them. The world is broken in many ways. Accepting yourself as whole and good when the world is telling you you're unnatural or wrong is a hard task.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think detoxing from society and society's expectations is a good start. Getting in touch with nature and your place within nature. I often feel alienated from others of my biological sex and from what society expects from females, but I view that as a problem with society, not with me personally. There's nothing wrong with how I was born. My body is not wrong. My body is not a moral defect or failing. My genitals and chromosomes do not speak to my character or indicate that I am somehow weak or inferior by virtue of possessing them, which is what society tries to get women to believe.

I like that a lot, I've never thought to 'detox' from society's expectations--are you saying then that removing oneself from that might be helped by focusing on one's place in nature then? I don't mean to be pedantic, I just want to make sure I understand you correctly. Indeed society's expectations influences us negatively in so many ways, and limits the kind of people we can be. To find have love and acceptance of one's own body as it is definitely seems crucial to cultivating self-love. I suppose for many people, focusing on that may really provide some relief and help foster those positive beliefs and feelings.

The world is broken in many ways. Accepting yourself as whole and good when the world is telling you you're unnatural or wrong is a hard task.

Ugh, isn't that the truth. It's a hard task, but maybe the acceptance wouldn't be so profound if it were easy to do. If one has trouble accepting themselves as 'whole and good', then the revelation that they really are seems like it would have such a huge impact on them.

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I first came across the idea of detoxing from gender on Reddit's r/gender_detox sub. I think that was before I even found the old debate sub. Viewing gender as a harmful social construct was critical to me learning to make peace with my biological sex.

Not that you have to remove yourself from society completely, at least not physically. To me, detoxing means mentally stepping outside of society and focusing on who you are as an individual rather than what this culture says you are or should be. Seeing yourself as part of nature or evolution or creation or however you interpret the world. I believe that has the greatest chance of leading to inner peace. Accept the parts of yourself that you can't change, even if you're not thrilled with them or wish your circumstances had been different. Denial of reality seems to lead to a lot of frustration and anger, from my perspective.