Why does QT hate transmedicalists?

submitted by FlanJam from self.GCdebatesQT

I never realized just how much QT hates transmedicalists. "Truscum" is spoken with almost the same contempt as "terf". I find it odd because, as a layman outside the trans community, I always understood dysphoria being a big argument for QT. "Why would a trans person go thru the long difficult process of transition just for fun?", and "dysphoria is real and recognized, its in the DSM-5" are arguments I used to hear a lot.

But if that's not the case anymore, then what exactly is the QT stance now? Like, who are all these non-dysphoric trans people, and why are they transitioning if not to alleviate dysphoria? Throwing dysphoria out the window seems like an awfully big concession to make, I'm wondering why throw it out and what the QT stance is without it.

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[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

As a outsider, it seems like the QT position is basically "biological sex is a spectrum and/or a social construct, therefore since you can't know who is female and male from their bodies self-ID is the way to go." Also, QT are against requiring trans identified people undergone any step of "medical transition" in order to legally change sex. Since transmedicalists favour requiring a clinical diagnostic and "medical transition", I guess that is why QT hate them.

I think QT use gender dysphoria in their arguments because, first, they understand this is something the general public is more likely to accept and, second, because they still want "gender affirming treatment" being covered up by the health system.

[–]FlanJam[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I think dysphoria is one of their strongest arguments for those reason. Idk how they could argue without it. The transmedicalist view seems a lot stronger to me now, when compared to the self-id, sex is a construct view.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

they still want "gender affirming treatment" being covered up by the health system.

And there you have it. Judith Butler isn't going to fund anyone's surgery/Rx bills.

[–]SilverSlippers 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transmeds/Truscum believe that sex dysphoria and being trans is a mental illness for which transition is treatment. Transmeds (correctly) view sex and gender as binary. They want to fit in with that binary. Rose of Dawn, Blaire White, and Buck Angel are all Transmed.

Tucute/QT believe that being trans is an identity that people 'discover' and that anyone can be any gender. They think sex and gender are a spectrum/social construct and anyone can be anything. QT doesn't like Transmed bc they are supporting the sex binary.

[–]Greensquidsphone 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Hmmm.

I think it might be easier to understand if you seperate them by those who want to be visibly trans and those who want to blend in. Besides trenders being upset with transmed folks over gatekeeping or medicalisation of dysphoria, there are a lot upset with the idea that medicalist trans people have foremost the goal of blending in (since doing so would be a massive relief of dysphoria). For the visible group, they don't see dysphoria as something to treat and make better, it's more like they see transness as a whole an extension of queer culture, something to display proudly and openly. No hormones? Brave and valid. Hormones with no dysphoria? Brave and valid. They're the most vocally active group against self-medding by far, mostly because I don't think they have a real understanding of dysphoria and the medical system is general. You could probably get away with calling them GNC people who have co-opted (and then expanded) trans identity for themselves and be right most of the time.

Really just seperating them as two different groups and treating them as such is healthier and easier than keeping them under the same umbrella, considering how wildly different they are.

[–]FlanJam[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Kinda reminds me of queer supremacists vs assimilationists. I can't help but feel they're treating it like a counter culture trend. In the past there were hippies, punks, emo, etc. Queer seems like this decade's counter culture trend. Especially now that queer and trans are defined to broadly practically anyone can be queer or trans if they just self-id as such.

[–]Greensquidsphone 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

A counter culture trend sounds like a pretty apt description tbh, gonna steal that.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I get really confused trying to disentangle QT from tucute from truscum from transmedicalist... it all feels like a headache. From my really bad understanding, I would think it's the "gatekeeping" aspect of transmedicalists that garner the most negative feelings. QT, if I understand correctly, supports inclusivity, which mandating gender dysphoria as criteria for being transgender would clash with because that means not everyone can or is trans just because they say they are.

[–]FlanJam[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Yeah, I dont even know what tucute is lmao. Its all very confusing. I can see the "anti-gatekeeping" mentality, the entire lgbt seems to have an obsession with maximum inclusivity at all costs. I just don't understand who they're trying to include? Are there trans people without dysphoria? That seems kinda weird to me, because if someone doesn't feel discomfort and is content with their sex/gender... why transition?

[–]kwallio 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Here is what I think they are, but I'm not trans, just an observer.

tucute - most trans ppl, the "don't need dysphoria to be trans", meds/surgery on demand ("no hatekeeping") etc eta - Should also mention that this group thinks that you don't have to take steps to transition or pass as the opposite sex in order to be trans.

transmeds/truscum - the old school sort of trans, thinks tucutes are "transtrenders", has dysphoria, thinks people should have dysphoria in order to be considered trans.

I might be reading too much into things but it seems like at least for males the Blanchard HSTS (or homosexual before transition) types fall into the transmeds and the AGP (or heterosexual before transition) types fall into the tucutes.

I'm not sure where non-binaries, trans-mascs or trans-femmes who don't transition medically fall.

Some of the wierd language has occurred because some of these terms are insults the trans community throws at each other (truscum is what the tucutes call the tranmeds, tucute is what the transmeds call the non-dysphoria having or requiring trans, who basically call themselves just trans).

[–]FlanJam[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ok, I see. Funny how QT likes to invent labels. The lesbian community has some infighting as well, over who is/isn't lesbian, but we don't have labels like truscum or tucute. And we definitely don't have anything like "terf" (although, some people tried to use blerf but it thankfully never got popular)

[–]censorshipment 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

We have platinum star, gold star and non-gold star though. Lesbians who have never been involved with a man in any way, lesbians who may have had boyfriends or dated guys but never had sex with them, and lesbians who have been sexually involved with men / married to men. The latter may not be considered lesbians depending on who you talk to. I personally believe having sex with a guy ONE time is excusable... but if you could tolerate having consensual sex with a man multiple times, you're bisexual. I don't care about that "comphet" bullshit. I simply don't believe a lesbian can repeatedly have sex with a man by choice. I cannot fathom how that's mentally/emotionally possible.

And if you're wondering, I am a platinum star lesbian.

[–]FlanJam[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh right, forgot about those lol.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm very sorry to report that AGPs have co-opted the star system as well.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Throwing dysphoria out the window seems like an awfully big concession to make, I'm wondering why throw it out and what the QT stance is without it.

Coupla thoughts.

a) As an extension of Queer Theory, it actually makes sense to decouple from GD (QT can't easily admit the constraining mechanisms of diagnosis into "queerness," even in a supporting role -- it counters the core notion of fluidity). Which

b) is of zero help to actual GD patients, who have to negotiate the real world outside of the hyper-insulated realm of critical theory, yet

c) it's super-useful to the dynamics of adolescent rebellion (meaning neurological adolescence, which goes on til about age 25 or so).

C'est les bollocks imo, but.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I always support using a persons preferred pronoun, even if they're not trans. I assume pronouns based on appearance and will use different pronouns when asked. I am a truscum I guess, because I believe you need to have dysphoria to be trans, though I believe people experience dysphoria differently. I also understand some trans people cannot afford transition or don't take hormones because of side effects. It doesn't make them less trans though.