Let’s discuss this casual throwing around of terms like ‘nazi’

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

For those who do compare feminists saying males do not have a right to female spaces to nazis- what’s the similarity?

Where are the pogroms? Uniforms, state backed factions, or calls for violence? Where are the camps for transgender people? The calls for camps? How many transwomen have been forcibly relocated to a ghetto by feminists? Have you ever been arrested by feminist police for being trans? Is there a government branch dedicated to eradicating you as efficiently as possible?

Do you pin your birth certificate to your shirt and that’s why it’s apparently similar to a star or triangle enforced on people in nazi territory?

Which feminist is the leader of this group? How many transwomen are murdered by feminists every day and how does that number compare to the number of Jewish people murdered in a death camp per day?

How frequently have feminists marched holding mock-guillotines or effigies of transwomen?

Do you fall asleep at night hidden in someone’s dirty damp basement praying that the feminists with guns won’t find you and murder you?

What’s comparable between saying ‘transwomen are males’ and ‘Jews are the sneaky evil enemy of the people and should be slaughtered like pigs’

Be as specific as possible. Give us some receipts, not claims if seeing it happen.

For the rest of us, let’s hear how you feel when likened to a genocidal dictatorship? How many of you come from families that were direct victims of the Holocaust? Why do tras always choose hitler when they could mix it up and say were like pol pot, mao, or Stalin?

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[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 12 insightful - 9 fun12 insightful - 8 fun13 insightful - 9 fun -  (1 child)

Nazi's were breathing air, AND SO DO YOU. Why you are not ashamed yet?!

It is very common to call feminists "nazi" by men's rights activists, thought. Word "feminazi" is existing for more than three decades now and obviously used against women asking voting rights and rights to own property. It is just same old song, and very typically male thing to say.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So typically male! They really do only have one argument at the end of the day. ‘Do as I say, woman!’

[–]MarkTwainiac 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (96 children)

OP, love your new flair. That statement by the OP of that other thread stood out to me as well. LOL. Here's his "argument" in a nutshell:

I personally did nothing wrong in my life, and to show how womanly and what a true feminist I am, I've come here to call you uppity female people horrible names, command that you "do not cross" me, insist that minors with mental health problems be given drugs to stunt their development that will leave them sterile and sexually dysfunctional along with a host of other harms, and warn that if you don't do as I say, millions of trans people will kill ourselves and it will be all your fault. Then you'll be really sorry...

Not to sound harsh, but when an abusive stranger on the internet tells me he'll commit suicide if I don't follow his orders, I find I do not care. At all.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (46 children)

The new flair is the best and stupidest thing I’ve ever heard a male say in the sub.

We are responsible for this random males emotions, ability to keep himself alive, and protection from men who might hurt him. Also we’re stupid, racist ableist idiots who force people to suicide and better stop crossing his lines. If we’re so horrible and useless why does he put us in charge of whether or not he offs himself?

It’s so much effort when he could just say “I hate women and want to stop them doing anything I dislike” and move on.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The flair and your post sum it up perfectly.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (43 children)

I couldn't make up how ironic "I hate women and I want to stop them doing anything I dislike" is when you literally hate trans people and want to stop them doing things you dont like.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (42 children)

I want them to stop doing things that impede MY rights as a woman.

Males smh.

Make a real point or get better at snark. You’re currently just embarrassing yourself doing either right now. ETA interesting how you still pick and choose which comments you reply to and only reply with silly snark whilst studiously ignoring questions that poke holes in your dogma.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (16 children)

Funny how you’re not worth responding to when it comes to debate, but you’re worth blocking, making an alt to engage with and trading insults with as long as they don’t have to address the topic of discussion

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Reminds me of why I stopped working with kids. Anything to divert from the issue at hand, leaping from topic to topic, and uncontrollable outbursts. At least the kids were emotionally undeveloped and rude due to exposure to family toxicity, hence their working with me. This ones just..doing it for kicks? Genuinely emotionally invested in the opinions of an unknown woman on the internet? Who knows!

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (14 children)

I only blocked you and a dung bit, and I unblocked you because i am trying my hardest to learn from the greatest sparring partner I've ever had the honour of interacting with. :)

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

It won’t matter how well you spar if you can’t hold your own concerning the actual topic :)

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

Which is hilarious considering you've added nothing to the discussion. Seriously your response to bullying being directly linked to an increased rate in suicide was "well they don't all commit suicide so". We can link societal actions to an increase in suicidality. The perpetrator of these actions is then at the very least indirectly responsible for those actions. Actions which, again, cause an increase in suicide. I cannot make it any simpler for you, Sloane. If I legislate out the ability for depressed people to get therapy, and the suicide rate increases in response, by your logic I have 0 responsibility for it, despite having directly increased the rate of suicides through my action. Obviously not every depressed person will kill themselves in this scenario, that doesn't make it any less my fault that the ones who have did so.

And once again

And nobody is responsible for suicide other than the person committing it.

For posterity's sake, your quote

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

You know, it occurred to me that you’re just like a child. When you send these long rambling comments that are irrelevant and ignore what we’ve been saying, it comes across as if you’re trying so hard to be clever and demeaning, but you’re just not good at it. Your lack of reading comprehension adds to the lack of effectiveness in your comments, as well. It’s not fun engaging with you, it’s not challenging, it’s not thought provoking. It’s just tedious. You can keep blaming others for everything all you want, you can ignore what I’ve been saying so you can keep saying the same thing, you can beat this dead horse by yourself until you get sleepy and need a nap. Some of us are mature enough to see beyond your limited, self victimizing perspective. We’ve already discussed this topic without you, I’ve said what I have to say a few times, quite a few people have. Nobody agrees with you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

Ageism and ableism. Also I agree with squid

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

And for the billionth time, sloane gives me a mile long diatribe about how im sooooo dumb rather than responding to anything i've said. Cue shock.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (24 children)

I want radfems to stop trying to legislate out proven medical treatments. Im not writing 80 responses, you arent worth it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Whatever you need to sleep at night pal. Die mad about women maintaining rights you don’t get to impede. Ain’t no medical papers saying treatment for dysphoria involves forcing women in rape shelters to be bunkmates with a male who’s sad about his maleness.

Sure, but it was totally worth it to feel clever for a second with ‘smh cis people’. Just not worth it to face questions you can’t answer lol.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (8 children)

Ain't no medical papers saying your weird faith healing idea of just loving your kids enough will make the trans go away. To quote my favourite cis person, die mad.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Lmao you’re still pissy over an argument you embarrassed yourself in days ago? That’s why you’re trying so hard to get in a dig? Wow that’s sad lol. Keep carrying on even though I’m not worth it ya pork chop. What will you jump to next since you are incapable of responding to a single flaw pointed out in your sad quips?

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

The suicidality tied to mentally unhealthy children being unable to access, again, medically proven healthcare is 100% relavent, I never STOPPED talking about it you moldy loaf of bread.

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Ooh, Green in your ad hominem attacks you've switched from slagging off Sloane as "an unwashed sack of potatoes" to calling Houseplant a "moldy loaf of bread."

Seems you are very starch- and carbphobic. Or maybe just hangry?

Your switching so easily from hurling insults about potatoes to disses about bread indicates you're a transpolysaccharide rights activist.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh I’m well aware what silly shit you’re banging on about, I just don’t care or feel like reading some dude repeat himself over and over with the attitude of someone who’s shit his pants and insists someone else did it.

You, rather than ask what id do to treat my own child with gender dysphoria, immediately pretended I believe in faith healing and -hug the trans outta the child-. You got mad about the thing you pretended was happening, and now resent me for beliefs you imagine I have and so choose to once again, not listen to me and just repeat yourself with unfunny insults dribbled in. It’s boring. It’s dumb. It’s so typically male that if it was a character in a book I’d roll my eyes.

Go cry to someone who cares about the shit you invent in your crazy head. You’re clearly never gonna make even an attempt any level of debate or discussion.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

No name calling

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

You aren’t maintaining anything, we’re winning 😎

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You say you won't respond coz those with different views "aren't worth it." When it's clear to everyone here that you won't respond coz you have no credible arguments and evidence to back up your views.

No one "literally hates trans people." Some of us know trans people very well & care for their wellbeing. We also know that "trans people" do not constitute a monolith. Some trans people are lovely, compassionate, reasonable and have empathy for girls & women. Others are abusive, narcissistic, unhinged MRAs who don't see girls & women as human - and they're mad as a box of badgers.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

Its not worth responding to 7 different posts when you're all just circlejerking eachother over the same shit. No one "literally hates women", but that's the random state that's been applied to me without proof so honestly it feels like i can say whatever I want and not be wrong here. I mean, thats all any of you are doing. The rules clearly arent followed, this is a lawless wasteland.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

LOL, "circlejerking." That's not a term girls & women customarily use to describe arguments. When we speak of circlejerking, we almost always are referring to what males do.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Rules aren’t followed here! Cried the guy who has broken the following rules of the sub.

-No trolling. This includes bad faith arguments and shit-stirring.

-No flaming. This includes telling others to "fuck off", "fuck you", etc. Threads which deteriorate to the point of flaming will be locked.

-No harassment of users in this sub or other subs.

-No personal attacks. This includes insults, inquiring into a person's appearance or passability, name-calling, and accusations of bigotry/transphobia/fetishism. No nazi comparisons. Try to address ideas, not people.

Go off

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

Well yeah, why am I going to adhere to rules that the overwhelming majority ignore? My existence is harassment according to radfem ideology so I broke the rule the second i transitioned. And you're breaking all the others with me, so we can both enjoy together as n o t h i n g h a p p e n s. Or the biased mods will ignore just your blatant rulebreaking, we'll see, im excited to find out!

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wow you got spoken to harshly when you started shit talking in your first post and your surprised? No wonder you can’t even follow a single point of your own arguments.

Call me cis of course I’ll call you sir. Transitioning isn’t harassment. Messaging people who stop replying to your stupid comments is.

Seeing as you still don’t have any point and are just posting because you’re in a bad mood, and you can’t bring yourself to ignore me even though I’m so unimportant and not worth it to you, I’ll make it easy.

Goodbye sir. It was unpleasant talking to you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Reported for misgendering

[–]kwallio 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Proven my ass. John's hopkins stopped doing transgender surgeries because there was no proven benefit. Other studies have shown the same thing.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/center-transgender-health/services-appointments/surgical-services.html

Wow is that a 5 second Google search proving you wrong?

[–]kwallio 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/center-transgender-health/services-appointments/surgical-services.html

they only started again after intense pressure from trans activists. Doesn't prove the treatments WORK to reduce dysphoria.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

And you can prove this, im sure.

Edit - One day later and im still waiting.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Reported for misgendering

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (47 children)

“Not to sound harsh, but when an abusive stranger on the internet tells me he'll commit suicide if I don't follow his orders, I find I do not care. At all.”

I now have someone from the subs in my pm’s trying to force me to discuss how suicide is other people’s fault. After I asked them twice to not message me

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (46 children)

Because you don't have an answer for it.

nobody is responsible for suicide other than the person committing it

Means the Native American suicide rate is just their own fault, somehow. Kids who are bullied and don't receive any sort of help are the only ones to blame when they commit suicide, somehow. You are an ableist sack of potatoes who has clearly never had a suicidal thought in their lives and I am profoundly happy for you for that.

And before I get the "wahhhhh I'm being stalked" because you have one mode and it's denigrate rather than answer, I'm preemptively telling you to get over yourself, I stopped responding because I figured your answer was just 'yes' and went to go browse the new thread before I went to sleep, and lo and behold, here you are, hugboxing with your friends about the mean ol' tranny creep who wants you to say outright that you're an ableist and a racist rather than just hiding behind a veneer of plausible deniability.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (44 children)

I gave my answer before you pm’d me. Period. I said what I said. Unless someone is holding a weapon to your head or threatening to kill your family if you don’t take your own life or some other extreme circumstances- every person who kills themselves made the choice themselves. I literally fucking said that I understand that external circumstances can and do contribute to suicidal ideation- the committing of suicide, the actions taken, that is always the choice of the individual who commits it. This was stated in the other post. You had no reason to pm me, and no reason to continue to do so after I twice told you to leave me the fuck alone.

Millions of kids and teens get bullied and don’t kill themselves. I have two relatives and a close friend who killed themselves. You act as if every single person who endured those particular hardships commits suicide. They obviously don’t. Which means that the people who did, chose to do so.

I didn’t call you a mean old tranny creep you called yourself one. What I said was that you were pm-ing me after I told you not to. That’s all I fucking said. So stop putting words in my mouth and adding intent to my comments that weren’t there.

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (43 children)

And once again, all I have to say is I'm glad you've never been suicidal in your life. Enjoy your day, bud. Block button's still there, you're a grown ass woman, I doubt I need to tell you where to find it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (27 children)

You know what, why don’t you go ahead and enlighten my racist ableist ass, since that seems to be what you want.

Please explain to my why some people who get bullied, but not all, commit suicide? And how that means that it wasn’t a choice for the people who did?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

Because free will is an illusion

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You seem to think everything is an illusion lol

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Humans can’t perceive objective reality so yeah a bit. Free will however is logically incoherent unless you’re a compatibilist and change the definition of free will to the point where the term means “okay with what you’re doing”.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Okay then buddy

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (21 children)

I'll respond to your question with a question. Even if kids who are bullied have drastically higher suicide rates, why do we care if theyre bullied at all? Surely they're not being driven to a higher rate of suicidality because of bullying, according to you the bullies have no responsibility for it, so what's the issue with just letting them keep on?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

So you can’t answer my question. And you do the classic tra move of deflection. Responding to a question with a question is a way of avoiding answering the question, it’s not an answer at all.

I didn’t say suicide was an easy choice, I didn’t say it was okay that they did it, or that we should dismiss them and not care, I said they did make the decision to do it, and others in similar or even the same situations didn’t make that choice. I also didn’t say that there couldn’t be other factors contributing to the choice to commit suicide, such as mental illness/ depression/circumstances, in fact I specifically said that there were other factors. Nowhere does that imply that we should just let bullies be bullies. The fact of the matter is, multiple kids can be on the receiving end of abuse from a bully and most of them will not self harm or kill themselves as a result. Another fact is, millions of people suffer from the same issues that cause some people to commit suicide, yet they don’t do it or attempt it themselves. What I said, is that regardless of the why’s, it is a decision that is made by an individual, and the choice to make that decision lies with the individual alone.

So again, please explain to my why some people who get bullied, but not all, commit suicide? And how that means that it wasn’t a choice for the people who did?

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (8 children)

Not everyone is going to commit suicide because not everyone has the same extenuating circumstances in their lives you unwashed sack of potatoes.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I literally said people csn be in the same situation and one may choose suicide while the other doesn’t. That still doesn’t answer why some people choose to and others don’t, you self righteous sack of bullshit (see I can throw out names too)

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So..some people choose suicide and some dont? Or are you saying there are extenuating situations that lead to suicide 100% of the time?

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (10 children)

I don't really want to play this game all night, and since you were very clear in your wording earlier and very clearly wrong I'm not going to sit around waiting for you to explain that's NoT wHaT I mEaNt. We can directly link both societal and interpersonal actions to suicidality. At one end of those actions is someone(s) or something(s) at least partially responsible. It's not a topic up for debate, it's heavily studied fact. See you later, maybe someday my sparring skills will be on par with a master such as you.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Like I said- you can’t answer the question so you back away and make excuses as to why you won’t. Fucking coward.

Eta- I saw that you had the audacity to tell someone else who shared their own experience with suicidal thoughts that their “anecdote was irrelevant” because they agreed with and supported me.I’m guessing you wouldn’t have found someone else’s anecdote irrelevant if they’d been agreeing with you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (6 children)

Reported for insults

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

I just did, good night.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

You don’t know shit about my life but bold of you to assume. Get off your fucking high horse. I don’t block people because I’ve learned how to not let people get under my skin enough to feel the need to. Normally, people can respect others enough to leave them alone when they ask. Never occurred to you that I didn’t want to discuss it because it was a difficult subject for me. You just made assumptions and ran with them. But I’m ableist and racist (funny you’d call me those things on this particular post lmao)?

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (13 children)

Sorry to see that you're getting harassed & insulted, Sloane.

BTW, I can relate to your experience. I had my first bout of MDD with suicidal ideation/urges in 1987, & put myself in a hospital psych ward as a result. I've had many other bouts of MDD with suicidality since then, & have been in group therapy for/with people with suicidal depression. Like you say, lots of people - most, I'd say - have experienced bullying growing up, & many of us have been physically abused & suffered all sorts of other hardships too. But of all the many people I've met over the decades who've struggled with suicidal depression, I've never met anyone who was suicidal coz they got bullied, felt insulted or insufficiently "affirmed" by strangers and the world at large.

Suicidal ideation, urges & attempts are usually multifaceted in etiology. Portraying suicidal ideation, impulses and attempts in the simplistic, immature way that TRAs who think & behave like toddlers do is really unkind to all the people who struggle with these issues.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you. And I’m sorry that someone dismissed your experiences.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm okay. Water off a duck's back. Hope you are okay too.

[–]Greensquidsphone 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (10 children)

https://econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/abs/10.1027/0227-5910/a000264?journalCode=cri#/doi/abs/10.1027/0227-5910/a000264?journalCode=cri

Your anecdotal experience is not evidence, please do not conflate it as such.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Suicide is a major cause of death in the country I live in, the USA. I have kept track of the trends in this area since the 1980s. In the 1990s, I was active in the campaign to get the US government's health body the CDC to collect stats on suicide & other forms of violent death nationally in a database available to the public that was separate to the stats & database of the FBI/US Department of Justice.

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/datasources/nvdrs/index.html

Moreover, because of my work history, I personally know Jews who grew up & managed to survive Naziism and the Holocaust, Native Americans of various tribes/nations who've gone through horrors, Cambodians who experienced the killing fields of the Khmer Rouge, persons who endured the Soviet gulags, survivors of the genocidal war that occurred in the wake of the break up of the former Yugoslavia, Cubans who were imprisoned by Castro, Persians who were jailed & exiled due to the 1979 revolution, Afghans forced to flee their country due to the Russian invasion and the takeover by the Taliban... and other people who've experienced some of the horrific events of recent human history. And one of the topics I've discussed with the people I know who endured such suffering is, why weren't there mass suicides amongst the groups being persecuted? This has long been a topic of intellectual inquiry.

Yes, my knowledge of suicide ideation, urges and attempts is informed by my own personal experience. But it's certainly not based solely on my experience or on anecdotes. Whereas yours seems to be based on spurious claims, dodgy sources and the manipulative tactics of emotional abusers.

Moreover, it's very clear from your posts that whenever you are challenged, you can't articulate any arguments defending and advancing your position. Instead, you just resort to ad hominem attacks.

Speaking of which, as a person of Irish heritage whose grandparents and parents were castigated and discriminated against for being dumb, dirty Paddys, I take umbrage at you calling Sloane "an unwashed sack of potatoes." IMO, this diss that you've chosen to use reflects racist prejudice against a certain ethnicity, and a condescending yet also exploitative attitude towards the main food of an indigenous population that was intentionally given a blight by colonizers trying to create a famine that would wipe said indigenous population off the face of the earth.

See, us unwashed sacks of taters can play this game too.

But back to the issue of suicide, who it affects and why: please start a thread about this. In a debate on the topic I think I'd wipe the floor with you.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

In my short work in suicide prevention hotline, what I've learned is that if a group is susseptible to suicide - then you should never even mention to them possibility of such and should move discussion to something far away from it. Introducing suicide as an option will give them idea that it is one of courses of actions in the first place, which they may not even considered before at all, and such introducing of suicide was increasing risks of suicide for that groups significantly - by 3-5 times.

So if transgender people are "at risk of suicide" - then trans activist's fearmongering of them and their parents by saying "you will end up in suicide if not transitioned" should be even worse and such trans activist's rhethorics should be increasing amount of suicide attempts by transgender people by at least 5 times. So does not look like they care about transgender people at all and this tactics is basically just terrorism or coercive control with "Do X or Y will die".

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, yes, you are very smart.

why weren't there mass suicides amongst the groups being persecuted

But there were. We know there were. Survivorship bias and the fact that data current to those events was tampered with heavily by the perpetrators of said events both make it hard to get an accurate read on suicide data during, for example, the holocaust, but even still:

Some estimates are as high as 1 in 4 committing suicide inside of concentration camps (https://www.researchgate.net/publication/7738915_The_Suicide_Rate_in_the_Concentration_Camps_Was_Extraordinarily_High_A_Comment_on_Bronisch_and_Lester). We also know that pre-war, Jewish peoples in Germany/Austria had a higher suicide rate (https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165178117311290?via%3Dihub). And even DESPITE survivorship bias, the rate of suicide still seems to be higher in aging holocaust survivors (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16085786/ , https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/17402339/) when compared to the general population by a significant margin.

Moreover, it's very clear from your posts that whenever you are challenged, you can't articulate any arguments defending and advancing your position.

Right, was it you who linked me a study you didn't even read earlier? I'm not sure I trust what's 'clear' to you.

Instead, you just resort to ad hominem attacks.

No, I just include them. If I can't beat em, join em, right?

See, us unwashed sacks of taters can play this game too.

Sure. You sure showed me. I'm glad we've already hit the slur-reclaimation stage.

But back to the issue of suicide, who it affects and why: please start a thread about this.

Start a thread about WHAT. There's nothing to debate. Suicide affects people. There are a large number of determining factors behind it. Sometimes a subset of those factors is an entity we can point to and blame.

In a debate on the topic I think I'd wipe the floor with you.

I kind of want to let this stand on its own. Being here has been this surreal experience where I can't tell if I'm interacting with boomers who think having lived longer means they're smarter or 14 year old kids who just found the skeptic community on Youtube and want to prove their worth in the comments of some random feminism video.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Accusations of prejudice aren’t allowed

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Reported for misgendering

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It’s desperate and disgustingly disrespectful. But they always do things like this. Compare themselves to all sorts of groups or situations that have nothing to do with them and aren’t comparable. If we aren’t Nazis, then we’re the white people who enforced slavery, Jim Crow, and segregation. There are other comparisons I saw that just make me laugh because they’re so absurd. Or they just call us abusers and murders. I think they resort to this type of stuff because they think people will be so upset by the comparison that they won’t think through how ridiculous it is.

They choose Hitler because he’s the most commonly known and easily recognized- Hitler is synonymous with evil and the Holocaust to most people, I’d think. And since it’s a lazy tactic i doubt they put much thought into it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, now the suffering of Native Americans has been dragged in to the convo too.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hey we’re the racists for not using indigenous people as pawns.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There are other comparisons I saw that just make me laugh because they’re so absurd.

Don't forget incel. I have still no clue where that came from. They keep telling us that they deserve love and that if we refuse to fuck them we are bigots, but for some reasons we are the incels... 🤔🤔🤔

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

~We deserve love so you bitches better stop withholding all the admiration and sex you owe me before I get the belt.~

Yeah wow it’s so weird that we aren’t all in love with these people.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I actually remember a post (in a trans sub) where someone asked how gc were incels. They said it was because we reduce women to their body parts. That same sub had post after post complaining that “cis” people didn’t want them and was full of comments complaining that they were unfairly rejected by people they were interested in because the person wasn’t interested in sleeping with a trans person. Of course many responses were about how they were more feminine than “cis” women and they were upset that they were unfairly passed over for “basic ass cissies”.

Literally could just change out a few words and it would’ve read like Roger Elliot’s manifesto.

[–]kwallio 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Projection is imax level.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For the rest of us, let’s hear how you feel when likened to a genocidal dictatorship?

Honestly? RIght now, I don' t give a fuck. 5 years ago, when I started peaking and was called bigot/transphobe/nazi/fascist, I seriously stopped and wondered if I was in the wrong because being called even one of those words was a serious thing. It still had a meaning, and that meaning had some terrible implications that required serious thinking. Right now, you' re a nazi if you don' t want to fuck a trans person, if you believe that biological reality should come before feelings or if you think that rape victims should have the right to choose who can examine their genitals. It' s pretty obvious that the term was denaturated so much that it means absolutely nothing.

Why do tras always choose hitler when they could mix it up and say were like pol pot, mao, or Stalin?

Hitler is a more famous and more recognizable figure than the others. Lots of people, while maybe knowing those names, don' t necessarily know what they have done. Everyone knows what HItler was responsible of, and when you build a movement based on painting opposers as the worst kind of person of the planet, having a handy name like Hitler to compare them to something is way more beneficial for their image. When TRAs call us "nazis", people outside of the debate immediately evoke in their mind WW2, concentration camps and genocide. When they call us something else, a person would probably need to look into it, and it' s not a given that they will.

I will give TRAs that, they are amazing grifters and PR experts. THey are also rotten to the core.

[–]emptiedriver 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

When I was in high school "feminazi" was the preferred term for women who took this whole rights thing too far. Comparing people to Hitler when they start being mean or asking you to do stuff you don't want is just how unchallenged overprivileged kids handle the start of a disagreement.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Side notes:

  1. Sorry for the conversation derailing!

  2. Just noticed your new flair and I agree it’s perfect

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Perhaps it isn't appropriate of me to speak here and comment on this since I don't see justification in any comparison of feminists to Nazis nor do I receive the appellation, but I'm sorry so many people speak like this. I think many trans people, TRAs and allies mistake words of criticism of gender and transgenderism for persecution, a term often used when talking about the Holocaust.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah it’s totally appropriate for you to weigh in here. I think you’re right about people mistaking being disagreed with as persecution.