GC: What are the definitions of male and female? How would intersex people fit into binary sex? And is calling the intersex condition a disorder (of sexual development) discriminatory towards intersex people?

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[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

For the definitions of male or female, when we ask what about someone that surgically removed their gonads, GCs argue they don't stop being male or female eventhough they don't produce gametes,

So you think girls before menarche and women after menopause are no longer female? I suggest you inform your mother and, if you have on, grandmother and all the other women you know over age 51 of this and see what they think. Or go over to a local nursing home, senior center, Hystersisters or a menopause forum and say that.

BTW, my own gonads were removed nearly 20 years ago. Since then, no one has ever suggested that I am not female - or that I am now without sex. Never, not once. My children have never thought to claim that they now have a mother who isn't female. If your mother is past menopause age, do you claim she is not female? Do you no longer refer to her, or consider her, your mother?

Basic concepts like the difference between descriptive and prescriptive definitions seem lost on you. As does what happens over the human lifespan. I suspect you are quite young. Is that the case?

If a human is defined as an organism with two legs, two hands and 5 fingers, why wouldn't it be correct to say someone born without a leg, or someone who amputated a leg is not a human?

This is not just ignorant, it's heartlessly cruel and offensive. I dare you to go say that out loud to persons getting medical care at a VA hospital or a medical facility like the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC or the various Shriners Hospitals for Children in the US. Your views are beyond the pale. I am not engaging with you any further.

[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is not just ignorant, it's heartlessly cruel and offensive. I dare you to go say that out loud to persons getting medical care at a VA hospital or a medical facility like the Hospital for Special Surgery in NYC or the various Shriners Hospitals for Children in the US. Your views are beyond the pale. I am not engaging with you any further.

I'm trying to understand the position. It may be cruel, and that's why I look for justifications. 'Why is someone born without a leg, or someone that amputated a leg still a human despite not meeting the definition of human which is to be bipedal?'.

If I wanted to believe they are not human I wouldn't ask.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What is generally true of any given species is not necessarily true of each and every individual member of that species at every point of each individual's life. Human beings as a species can be said to have two legs and arms, 10 toes and 10 fingers. This applies to 99+% of Homo sapiens. But there's a small number of some human beings who for one reason or another are outside the norm for our species. However, that does not mean they are no longer members of the species Homo sapiens. It does not mean they are not human any more, or never were.

As I've said elsewhere, you need to study up on classification and categorization. And on the difference between descriptive and prescriptive definitions.

I think you would greatly benefit by learning about the lives of people with severe disabilities. Starting with reading Dalton Trumbo's Johnny Got His Gun, all the people born with missing limbs due to the Thalidomide tragedy, and watching the Daniel Day- Lewis film My Left Foot, based on the real life story of Christy Brown.

You could easily have an accident tomorrow that causes you to lose a limb or an eye, or get sick and have to have your appendix or spleen removed. You really think you would then no longer be human?

Have you really never met a single person in your whole life who due to accidents, combat, blasts or surgery necessary coz of illness, dental wear & tear and/or aging doesn't have every single body part that the majority of humans have and which constitute the norm for our species? You don't know anyone who's had their tonsils or gallbladder out, or is missing teeth? You know no completely bald men? That's really hard to believe.

[–]Tea_Or_Coffee[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I am not engaging with you any further.

Please don't leave. You said vagina, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries are not genitals and I have more questions left hanging :(

If vagina, uterus, fallopian tubes, and ovaries are not genitals, then what are they? And in intersex cases where males have uteruses, fallopian tubes, ovaries, vaginas, etc, does it mean uterus, vagina, fallopian tubes, ovaries, etc are not female organs but organs that both male and female can have?

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You've been leaving literally every time you got your ass handed to you, only to return with amnesia later and ask the same question, and get your ass handed to you in the same way. I feel like you're the last person who should be saying this.