all 28 comments

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 13 insightful - 6 fun13 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

Obviously not. You gonna get surgery from the guy who plays a tv doctor? What does this have to do with gender or feminism?

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Obviously not

Why not?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Why would they be? Would you let the guy who plays a doctor give you surgery or not?

[–]comradeconradical 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

love how this poster never addresses direct questions.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Never ever. Cause that would be too close to good faith and intelligent for comfort.
I mean “they make the puppet think” is not something an adult says unless they’re bonkers or taking the piss. I’m convinced they’re the same user as genderbender and a few others cause of the refusal to answer anything that would make them think and the same bizarre leaps of logic.

Reminds me of that philosophy dude who says nothing has definitions unless he’s defining women as being mean and dumb and rude to him.

[–]comradeconradical 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So much effort for such low effort content :/

[–]grixitperson 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Within the setting, we accept that the character is in fact male, female, ancient egyptian, klingon, wizard, fairy, god, robot, or whatever. But we do not believe that that changes the actor doing the portrayal.

But you knew that.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

we accept that

But what if I don't accept that.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then you need to speak to a professional who can better explore an inability to seperate media from reality. This is genuinely concerning as it can be indicative of psychosis. Saidit cannot help with this. It requires a psychiatrist. Do you want some help locating one in your area?

[–]kwallio 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you on some sort of temporary release from a mental institution? TV is not real.

[–]censorshipment 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Lol years ago, I actually asked a similar question on https://bechdeltest.com/ where cinephiles determine if a movie has at least two (named) women in it - who talk to each other - about something besides a man. I don't remember which movie I inquired about, but it may have been a Tyler Perry movie where he plays Madea, a "cis" woman who is a mother. The test isn't about the actors... it's about the characters.

[–]FlanJam 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You have to separate the media from the meta-level. For example, is Iron Man Tony Stark? Or is Iron Man Robert Downey Jr? Well, both are true in a sense. In the story, Tony Stark became iron man when he made the robot armor. But in reality, the character of iron man is played by the actor Robert Downey Jr. So to answer your question, it depends by which context you are asking.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think the answer is that it’s fiction, so the character would be whoever and whatever the writer intended them to be. That being said, if the sex of the actor obviously doesn’t match the character, the audience would notice and it would likely pull focus from the story being told (unless that’s the “gag”, a la the Madea example mentioned by someone else). Assuming it’s a biopic, I guess they could cast the opposite sex but it would be pretty awkward and possibly disrespectful, and of course wouldn’t change the sex of the character since they were a real person.

[–]worried19 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fiction is fiction, and reality is reality. A character can be whatever the creator wants and intends it to be. A man can put on a dog costume and play a dog. A woman can put on a fake beard and a suit and play a man.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

We're are talking about fiction, so the sex (or any other characteristic) of a character is whatever the story says it is regardless of who is playing it. In some cases, the suspension of disbelief may be impaired because of the mismatch between the sex of the character and the perfomer, that's all.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

But then it's the same TQ belief, a man says he is a woman because he says he is, or a woman says she is a man because she says she is, and in the acting as a fictional character whose sex doesn't match the sex of the one who acts as it, a man says he is acting as a woman and therefore is a woman for the time being, and a woman says she is acting as a man and therefore is a man for the time being until the acting is over. There is no difference. "Trans men" and "trans women" are just playing as fictional characters, for years instead of a few minutes or hours. The fictional characters are just a version of them whose sex they think does not match their own sex. They create a fictional version of themselves who they think is the opposite sex, and act as it, and believe they are that for years. They act as that fictional version of themselves whose sex they think doesn't match their own. No difference.

That's why: If I see a male acting as a "female" character, I'll say that character is a male in that story because a male is acting as it, it is not a "female". But a male version of that "female" character people imagined because a male is acting as it.

And if a female acts as a "male" character, then I'll say the character is not male anymore. It is a female version of the "male" character the authors and producers imagined before, but because a female is acting as it, the character is also female.

It just makes no sense for a male to act as a "female" character, or for a female to act as a "male" character. There's just no way I can accept someone with a vagina is a "male" or someone with a penis is a "female" in any setting. Just like I can't accept someone white acting as a "black" character, they are white, and in that "setting" the character is also the white version of the black character that was first imagined, because a white individual is acting as it.

I'm .. so frustrated, wow. :((

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When Daniel Radcliffe dressed as Harry Potter, was he a real wizard? Do you think Lucy lawless is actually Xena?

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It's not the same at all. It's all fiction and most people understand that this is not real. And the whole point of acting is to pretend you're someone different from yourself (sometimes, completely different). To keep with Houseplant's example, just like Daniel Radcliffe is not actually a wizard, he won't became a woman if for some weird reason he plays a female character in his next movie. Also, Daniel's character would be female, just problably not a convincing one.

On the other hand, people who identify as trans claim to be something they are not and expect us to go along with it as this were the truth and not make belief.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

people who identify as trans claim to be something they are not

Which is what actors and actresses do. They claim or pretend to be something they are not. The only "difference" between acting and the TQ belief is for acting, people understand that's not real while for TQs they think what they pretend to be is real. Damn, this makes me hate acting even more.

[–]BiologyIsReal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What...?

Ok, I've been giving you the benefit of the doubt untill now, but I can't help but think you may not be arguing in good faith. Honestly, I don't think you are even QT as I doubt they would refer to trans identities as acting. So, what do you even believe in? If you don't believe in transgenderism/transsexualism why are you not debating them insteas of us? If you're in the fence, why are you not questioning them alongside us?

[–]comradeconradical 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This poster never engages with their actual views, only absurd hypotheticals. Honestly surprised they are allowed to continue to waste time with bullshit like this.

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Trans men" and "trans women" are just playing as fictional characters, for years instead of a few minutes or hours.

Do they know this? Have you checked your theory with pro trans rights people, that they are just "acting" as the opposite sex, because I have to think some of them would be offended at the claim...

Do you understand what lying is? Can you decide to just "act" as if you are a different age, have a degree, are drunk, were born in Russia, can play piano, have cancer, are a senator, and so on, or do these things have to be verifiably true? An actor can play a role but those things don't just become facts. They are playing pretend, and we understand that.

That is what "drag" was supposed to be - men dressing up as women (or vice versa) for fun. Some people have problems with that, but the idea, that it is for performance, is like acting. But doing that in your real life is lying. You can "act" a little bit, in that you can change your personality from how you think it normally is, but you cannot misrepresent the facts of your life the way you can in a movie. If you change the facts of your life, that is lying.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Acting is lying

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s performing a role in a work of fiction. Lying would be Daniel Radcliffe saying he really is a wizard and the Harry Potter movies didnt cgi his spells.

Acting is understood by the average person to be portraying fiction, and not trying to convince people they really truly are the character.

How are you not seeing that? What’s got you convinced actors are liars?

[–]emptiedriver 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Acting is lying

So if acting is lying, and trans people are just acting, then trans people are lying?