MarkTwainiac comments on GC: If only two "men", only two "women" or someone on their own can create an embryo/baby, then there is no difference between "man" and "woman", "egg" and "sperm", and they are man-made socially constructed categories that don't actually exist. If you disagree, please explain your reasons

GC: If only two "men", only two "women" or someone on their own can create an embryo/baby, then there is no difference between "man" and "woman", "egg" and "sperm", and they are man-made socially constructed categories that don't actually exist. If you disagree, please explain your reasons

submitted 3 years ago * by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun - 3 years ago* (7 children)

This is the most detailed and understandable thing I have ever read, in the entirety of the time I have existed.

What a nice thing to say! But it's sorta sad too. You clearly need to find better caliber reading material.

I'm not much into sci fi mad-scientist scenarios, though I was a huge fan of "Bizarro World" from Superman comic books in my youth. Mary Shelley's "Frankenstein" written 200+ years ago ended my interest in what today would be called "transhumanism." And I find transG and transH enthusiasts and pushers like Martine Rothblatt odious.

Jennifer Bilek is taking on transhumanism in stuff she's written as well as in video interviews. Just google "jennifer bilek transhumanism" and a lot of resources will come up.

I've tried to find philosophers or at least anyone knowledgeable in the field...

If you are looking for intelligent discussions of complex matters written in clear, understandable language and from a practical, reality-based perspective, I'd suggest staying away from most contemporary philosophers (except Kathleen Stock and Jane Clare Jones) as well as most everyone else in the humanities and social sciences in academia. PhD in many fields nowadays seems to means "phony dimwit."

IMHO, a good deal of what's been coming out academia, particularly in fields like philosophy and sociology and criticism, for many decades is incoherent gibberish intentionally written to be hard/impossible to understand and is without any intellectual depth, heft or import.

BTW, sorry if I've come off as snappish in my response to your posts. I've had a hard time figuring out where you're coming from, so to speak. On the one hand, you struck me as someone pushing a lot of QT ideas coz you're insistent on debunking the existence and"validity" of biological sex, but when I've contradicted your posts you've responded really politely and kindly and with what seems to be an open mind. I'm getting the impression that you are genuinely interested in discussion and in learning more...

Also, I've now looked through some of your old posts and threads you started, and saw that you've described yourself as stupid. Please don't put yourself down like that. You come off as plenty intelligent to me. It's just that you seem to have come under the sway of an ideology that is full of nonsensical bullshit and based on lies, and like so many other (young) people you've been bamboozled and bulldozed by it all. The fault is with the people promoting this mountain of BS and telling everyone with a different view to "STFU!" - not with you.

Best wishes! I've enjoyed our exchanges.

[+][deleted] 3 years ago (6 children)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (5 children)

BTW, 2old, I noticed that throughout your OP you kept speaking of "somatic cells." I hope you know that this terminology is redundant coz "somatic" simply means "relating to or of the body, as opposed to the mind." So similar to "physical" or "bodily." [Edited to add: in biology, particularly cell biology somatic actually has another, additional meaning, as biologyisreal points out in the post below. I stand corrected.]

In your OP, you also made a claim I found too ridiculous to address and refute, namely

What I believe given these findings is there is no such a thing as a "man" and a "woman", "sperm" and "egg", and they are man-made socially constructed categories that don't actually exist.

Now that we've had friendly exchanges and you've said

I am really not here to debunk the existence of sex, but really just trying to understand about it, and overcome confusion because I tend to get confused easily, and reach a conclusion.

I'm wondering if you still believe - and if you ever really believed - that

there is no such a thing as a "man" and a "woman", "sperm" and "egg", and they are man-made socially constructed categories that don't actually exist.

Finally, since your user name makes an issue of your age, I'm wondering if you wouldn't mind revealing how old exactly you are and at what age you think people become "too old for school."

In the spirit of fair play, I'll go first: I am 66, and I believe there is no age at which anyone becomes "too old for school." I know lots of people in their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s who've gone to school - whether it be adult ed courses, grad school or to get their HS or BA/BS degrees. I once did a newspaper story on a woman who was forced out of school in 8th grade when she got pregnant in the 1940s, and who attended HS in the US and got her HS diploma in her late 40s/early 50s. Gladys Mae West, the mathematician whose calculations formed the basis for GPS, earned a PhD in 2018 at age 88.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladys_West

[–]BiologyIsReal 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (2 children)

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun - 3 years ago (1 child)

Thank you for the correction! I should have looked into how cell biologists use "somatic" before I made that post. Duh. Instead, was going with the standard definitions I found in the Oxford, Collins and Cambridge dictionaries, the usual ones I consult. I did also look up "somatic" on medicinenet.com, and it said:

Somatic: 1. Relating to the body. a. As distinguished from the mind (the psyche). b.

From the Greek word somatikos meaning body.

Which I now know is erroneous.

Also, now that you've prompted me to look further, I see that Merriam-Webster, a dictionary I usually avoid, defines somatic as

1: of, relating to, or affecting the body especially as distinguished from the germplasm 2: of or relating to the wall of the body : PARIETAL

And that Dictionary.com says much the same:

of the body; bodily; physical.

Anatomy, Zoology. pertaining to the body wall of an animal.

Cell Biology. pertaining to or affecting the somatic cells, as distinguished from the germ cells.

Further, after searching for "somatic meaning cell biology" I've discovered a whole lot more, such as this:

https://biologydictionary.net/somatic-cells/

Sorry to nitpick

No need ever to apologize to me about nitpicking. I a major nitpicker myself, as you might have noticed, LOL.

Again, thanks for the correction. I love learning new things, and today I've learned several new things due to you. Now I'm gonna go read more about different kinds of cells. The last time I took a biology course was 50 year ago (or more, I think) so I find this entire topic to be really interesting. Lots of discoveries since back in the dark ages when I was in school.

[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

[+][deleted] 3 years ago (1 child)

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[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

I am so glad you replied!

Lots of people drop out of school like you did and have done so in the past. I totally get why you and others drop out. When I was in my teens and 20s, a common saying or "meme" was "school is ruining my education."

Also, in my own adult life I've been subjected to a lot of disdain and prejudice from academics coz I don't have any advanced degrees. Lots of times in my life starting in the 1970s and extending through the early 2000s I was told I wasn't allowed to apply for certain fellowships, awards or library privileges at institutions such as Harvard Radcliffe, the Sorbonne, Sciences Po, the NY Public Library's research divisions coz I don't have a MS/MA or PhD and lack any formal institutional affiliation.

I also hope you can see the difference between "earning an education" and "earning/getting a degree" and "becoming educated, knowledgable and/or learned."

There are actually lots of older students in most universities in countries like the US and UK (sorry, I dunno where you are). Sure, some teenage students there might "look at you weird" coz you're in your 30s and they are ageist eejits. As a former teenager myself, someone who has taught teens, and a parent who raised her own children during the teenage of phase of their lives, I am not particularly impressed by, or fearful of, the withering looks and disapproving attitudes of teens. My attitude towards their side-eye is "who gives a fuck?" and "you'll get it one day."

Fear and anxiety plague and have plagued many people, including me. I've personally had many occasions in my life when I've wanted to hide myself under the bed rather than do things that have scared the shit out of me - ranging from taking academic exams in subjects I was crap at to going through labor and childbirth to getting surgery to remove a tumor behind my eye that had grown into my brain to appearing on TV interview shows in order to promote books/articles I'd written to writing and delivering eulogies for siblings and friends who'd died to taking the stand in court to give sworn testimony about why I thought my ex-husband and I should have joint custody of our children rather than my ex getting sole custody as he sought ...

What I've learned throughout these experiences is that when we let fear and anxiety control us, we end up hurting ourselves - and sometimes/often the younger or weaker people who depend on us, too. There's an old adage, Feel the fear but do it anyways. Which should not be confused with the wisdom of Gavin de Becker in the essential book, The Gift of Fear.

Also, most of the people you think/fear will be looking at you weird actually are too preoccupied with their own insecurities and neuroses to pay you, me or anyone else much notice.

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