Genderbender comments on QT: A question of ideology

submitted 3 years ago by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (9 children)

“Transphobia does not mean whatever upsets trans people.

People are getting fired for saying trans women are men”

Because it upsets trans people. There’s nothing to prove that transwomen aren’t men. Or that they are women.

“trans men are women,”

Because it upsets trans people. There’s nothing that proves that transmen aren’t women, or that they are men.

“calling trans people narcissists, delusional, fetishists, fujoshis, etc.”

Because it upsets trans people. There’s actual studies that show that narcissism is commonly found in trans people, thinking you are something you literally are not is delusional, agp is a fetish even if it doesn’t apply to all trans people, and idk what a fujoshi is but if all the other things are sometimes applicable to trans people I won’t dismiss the possibility that this last one is also

“Most of us recognize that gender is different from biological sex. We just don't believe people should be defined by their biology and biology is irrelevant outside of a medical context.”

I’m saying you should be able to believe what you want but respect that others disagree and your beliefs shouldn’t be pushed on others. Others shouldn’t have to pretend to agree. Also, there’s no reason that gender should matter more and be more protected than sex.

Sex is assigned on our birth certificates based on observations.

But you’re not going to answer the other questions? Is it observed based on fat distribution? Hair length? How soft the baby’s skin is? What are they observing and why is that what determines sex???

I fully understand I can't get the world to behave how I want.

Your comment history indicates that this is a lie

Please don't tell me I'm supporting my own oppression. You don't even get to decide how I'm opposed as a female. I have multiple marginalized identities. Not only am I female, I am Jewish and learning disabled.”

You can support the oppression of females but not of Jewish people or the disabled...

“In my life, I was discriminated more due to being learning disabled than I was due to being female and Jewish combined.”

Then no disrespect meant but this is not related to the topic of discussion. Just because you personally haven’t faced (or more likely don’t realize you’ve faced) oppression due to being female, doesn’t mean that other females are oppression free. When you advocate for forcing males into female categories and spaces (mad rights, and sexuality, etc) you absolutely advocate for female oppression. Whether you see it or not. Unless you support female equality and the ability for females to have their own spaces, sports, representation, the ability to be classed as separate from their oppressors (males) you’re supporting the downfall of the women’s rights movement.

“I know oppression.”

But apparently not female oppression? So what relevance does this have to the topic? It seems like you think since you haven’t faced the same types of oppression that many females are speaking out against, you are blind to it. And rather than listen to what females who don’t think like you say, you dismiss us and cling to your belief while telling us that if we don’t like it we can form our own communities away from everyone else, only work in specific places, and be subjected to ridicule and dismissal if we refuse to conform to your beliefs. Sounds like you do know oppression. But don’t seem to realize that people who support oppression often know exactly what oppression is. Your knowledge of oppression doesn’t automatically mean that your beliefs don’t reinforce and support it.

“You don't get to tell me I'm supporting my own oppression”

Not just yours, all females.

Eta- considering how much you push to ostracize and silence anyone who doesn’t think like you and refuses to play along, sounds like you support the oppression of anyone, male or female, who doesn’t think like you do.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (8 children)

People are getting fired for saying trans women are men”

Because it upsets trans people. There’s nothing to prove that transwomen aren’t men. Or that they are women.

“trans men are women,”

Because it upsets trans people. There’s nothing that proves that transmen aren’t women, or that they are men.

There is nothing to prove trans women are men and trams men are women.

There’s actual studies that show that narcissism is commonly found in trans people,

Link to them.

thinking you are something you literally are not is delusional

Being transgender is essentially being mentally a different sex. If you're a trans man, you're a man in a women's body, but you're still a man. That's not delusional.

idk what a fujoshi is

It's a slur GC uses for gay trans men.

You can support the oppression of females but not of Jewish people or the disabled...

I do not support the oppression of females. I have been discriminated for being female and Jewish, just not as much as I was discriminated for being disabled. But you will never hear me say women should not be allowed to enter certain professions, or women should be paid less than men, or women should be sexually harassed. I even voted for female presidential candidates.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (7 children)

There is nothing to prove trans women are men and trams men are women.

We can look at this two ways:

If neither side can be proven, people shouldn’t be fired or ostracized for believing and stating one over the other
There’s ample proof that transwomen are men and transmen are women. Biology. Reproduction. Chromosomes. And so much more. Like... there’s just so much that disproves the idea that TWAW/TMAM

Link to them.

Google is your friend and it’s free, but if you’d like to exchange links, you can link me proof that transwomen are women and I’ll send you just a few of the several links that back up the statement that narcissism is common if not rampant in the trans community.

Being transgender is essentially being mentally a different sex. If you're a trans man, you're a man in a women's body, but you're still a man. That's not delusional.

Sex is not a mental state. if what you’re saying is true, they’d literally be identifying with typical sexual function, or bodies they don’t have, not gendered stereotypes, you haven’t really made a good case for them not being delusional. It’s not mentally sound to identify with a vagina or a penis or with fat distribution, or a set of chromosomes, and since you’ve said they identify with the opposite sex, that’s what you’re saying here. Maybe delusional isn’t the proper word- mental illness of some type surely is.

It's a slur GC uses for gay trans men.

Lesbians? Or straight females who think they’re men and want homosexual men to be with them? I’ll have to look it up because it’s still not too clear to me

I do not support the oppression of females. I have been discriminated for being female and Jewish, just not as much as I was discriminated for being disabled. But you will never hear me say women should not be allowed to enter certain professions, or women should be paid less than men, or women should be sexually harassed. I even voted for female presidential candidates

But you will take away a female’s ability to class herself separate from males? You’ll take away her safe spaces to give them to men who think they’re women? Will you make a female play sports with males because the males claim to be women/girls? Would you give a scholarship intended for females to a male if he identifies as a woman? Will you send male rapists to female prisons because of their sense of identity? Will you vote for a transwomen to be a political representative for females? The scope of oppression of females extends further than what you listed. If you support allowing TW access to female rights and spaces, you support female oppression on some scale. So it sounds to me like you support equal pay and in theory equal opportunity (idk where you fall on giving female specific opportunities to tw), but are more than ready to throw females under the bus when it comes to TW. That’s you supporting males over females. That’s you contributing to misogyny, patriarchy, and female oppression. You can support trans people without throwing females under the bus. By supporting them having human rights and their own spaces and opportunities. Instead, you throw us all under and tell yourself it’s okay because a loud minority of females think like you and will back you up, and the men you support over females show you gratitude.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (6 children)

If neither side can be proven, people shouldn’t be fired or ostracized for believing and stating one over the other

Than find a company that welcomes your transphobia.

There’s ample proof that transwomen are men and transmen are women. Biology. Reproduction. Chromosomes. And so much more. Like... there’s just so much that disproves the idea that TWAW/TMAM

But most of us don't define ourselves by our biology and many external sex characteristics like genitalia or appearance can be modified.

Google is your friend and it’s free, but if you’d like to exchange links, you can link me proof that transwomen are women and I’ll send you just a few of the several links that back up the statement that narcissism is common if not rampant in the trans community.

You're the one that claimed that there are multiple studies that trans people are narcissists.

Sex is not a mental state. if what you’re saying is true, they’d literally be identifying with typical sexual function, or bodies they don’t have, not gendered stereotypes, you haven’t really made a good case for them not being delusional. It’s not mentally sound to identify with a vagina or a penis or with fat distribution, or a set of chromosomes, and since you’ve said they identify with the opposite sex, that’s what you’re saying here. Maybe delusional isn’t the proper word- mental illness of some type surely is.

Gender identity is a mental state. Most of us define ourselves by our gender identity. If I was born male, I would feel uncomfortable and want to transition. The only reason I don't is because I was born in the correct body. That doesn't make me delusional.

Lesbians? Or straight females who think they’re men and want homosexual men to be with them? I’ll have to look it up because it’s still not too clear to me

Trans men aren't lesbians. They aren't female either.

But you will take away a female’s ability to class herself separate from males?

I have no issues with GC females classifying themselves as a separate sex.

You’ll take away her safe spaces to give them to men who think they’re women?

Trans women are women, not men who think they're women. Though to answer your question, yes.

Will you make a female play sports with males because the males claim to be women/girls?

I think sports is the only thing that should be sex segregated.

Would you give a scholarship intended for females to a male if he identifies as a woman?

Yes.

Will you send male rapists to female prisons because of their sense of identity?

I would treat male rapists the same as female rapists. Though to be honest I think our prisons need more oversight and there should be stricter security for violent offenders.

Will you vote for a transwomen to be a political representative for females?

That’s you supporting males over females.

Passing trans women are not treated as male and go through the same things cis women go through.

Instead, you throw us all under and tell yourself it’s okay because a loud minority of females think like you and will back you up, and the men you support over females show you gratitude.

If we are a loud minority, why are you complaining about being fired and silenced for expressing GC views? Most women secretly agree with you. Though anyway, women are more likely to be QT than men.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (3 children)

Than find a company that welcomes your transphobia.

Lmao it’s not transphobic to speak the truth or to say something that you don’t agree with. You keep throwing out the word transphobia- but you never explain how it’s actually transphobic. It’s not transphobic to disagree with tras and trans people.

But most of us don't define ourselves by our biology and many external sex characteristics like genitalia or appearance can be modified.

Actually “most of us” don’t define ourselves by our “gender identity”. Most of us just understand what our sex is and have no issues. Like 99% of us. And sure genitalia can be modified but a neovagina made out of a penis is not a female sex organ and a neophallus is not a male sex organ so it doesn’t matter what anyone does to their genitals, it doesn’t change sex.

You're the one that claimed that there are multiple studies that trans people are narcissists.

There are. Me telling you to google it doesn’t make that untrue lol

Gender identity is a mental state. Most of us define ourselves by our gender identity. If I was born male, I would feel uncomfortable and want to transition. The only reason I don't is because I was born in the correct body. That doesn't make me delusional.

Duh gender identity is a mental state. SEX is not. You said they identify as a sex, so what does gender identity have to do with it?
Not most of us, less than 2%. Most people don’t define themselves by gender identity and in fact have the term “cis” or sometimes if we protest too much, “agender” forced on us. It’s just not true that most people define themselves with gender identity. You saying that doesn’t make it fact, I really hope you learn that someday soon
Feeling discomfort in your body doesn’t mean you are the opposite sex or were meant to be. It literally means you’re uncomfortable with your body. That’s all it means. Again, you saying things that you believe but can’t back up doesn’t make it fact. It makes it your belief. You literally sound like you’re in a cult- just repeating stuff that you can’t back up
As I said, maybe delusional isn’t the proper word, but thinking you were born in the wrong body and telling yourself that you are the opposite sex/gender because of your personality, preferences and bodily discomfort is indicative of mental illness(es)

Trans men aren't lesbians. They aren't female either.

Some transmen are lesbians. Some are heterosexual or bisexual.
If they weren’t female they wouldn’t be trans and there wouldn’t be stories of transmen getting pregnant that are promoted as men getting pregnant. That whole argument of mEn cAn Get pRegNanT tOo is hinging on transmen but go ahead and make your false statements that you pretend are facts I guess

I have no issues with GC females classifying themselves as a separate sex.

There are GC men and you’re starting to sound like the wrong side of ww2

Trans women are women, not men who think they're women. Though to answer your question, yes.

So yes you support female oppression

I think sports is the only thing that should be sex segregated.

Interesting to find such blatant hypocrisy in your men’s rights activism lol

Would you give a scholarship intended for females to a male if he identifies as a woman? Yes.

Then you support male privilege and females not having equal opportunity

I would treat male rapists the same as female rapists. Though to be honest I think our prisons need more oversight and there should be stricter security for violent offenders.

Female rapists don’t get sent to male prisons FYI, but regardless of what you think about prisons, you seem to be fine with sending intact males to female prisons despite the news showing you that this has lead to rape of females by quite a few of these males. So just because you sent the violent offenders to male prison or whatever you plan to do with them (again, hypocrisy, a violent TW should still be a woman and this allowed in female prisons according to you, so then you’re discriminating if you don’t support male rapists being sent to female prisons. Bad ally).

Passing trans women are not treated as male and go through the same things cis women go through.

Didn’t ask about passing or not
They may go through some of what real women go through
What does it mean to be treated as a male/female?
If they are out as trans I promise you they won’t get treated the same as women, in some situations possibly. But they do and will continue to be treated differently in many ways

If we are a loud minority, why are you complaining about being fired and silenced for expressing GC views? Most women secretly agree with you. Though anyway, women are more likely to be QT than men.

You are a successful loud minority that was smart enough to associate yourselves with more significant and inoffensive causes. T is part of LGB, you lie about suicide and violence, misrepresent facts, hide the truth, and appeal to emotions- you’re a smart and media savvy minority. Most women and men do agree with gc. And sure more women are qt than men (maybe, idk that’s true or if you’re including men as women) but that doesn’t mean more women are qt than aren’t

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago* (1 child)

Eta- I think you do the classic tra/qt thing of not addressing a lot of things and acting as if your personal views are factual. Idk if you’re just very young or an actual narcissist but I’m convinced it is one of those if not both (I excuse a level of “I I I, me me me” in younger people, but as I said idk your age). you don’t seem to be capable of thinking outside of yourself and your beliefs. I read what MarkTwaniac has been saying and I have to agree. You don’t seem to have a great understanding of what you’re discussing. Be it biology, female oppression, or even qt talking points. You seem to be regurgitating what qt/tras have taught you, without much understanding (which- it’s an illogical and desperate ideology that contradicts itself and is ever evolving to suit their most current desire, so I can’t fault you there). You don’t really address points, and seem unable to explain/elaborate on your own. You just tell people who don’t think like you to find new environments. Like you want to separate everyone who thinks differently, anyone whose beliefs don’t line up with yours, you want to push them away and reclassify them as other than (despite it making no sense since biologically, physiologically, you have more in common with gc females than a TW)- I gotta say, you using being Jewish as a counter argument while you’re arguing to silence and isolate those who don’t practice your beliefs is, well it’s a bit ironic and a lot tone deaf to say the least.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

I would treat male rapists the same as female rapists. Though to be honest I think our prisons need more oversight and there should be stricter security for violent offenders.

There is one "small" difference, men are stronger and can make women pregnant, while women don't.

women are more likely to be QT than men.

This not makes you wonder why there is such an upraise among women to become "he/they" and "anything but woman"?

I think sports is the only thing that should be sex segregated.

Why only sports? Why everywhere else, where sex segregation always mattered - it stopping to matter, while in sport it still matters?

Why someone like Alex Drummond, who saying "I am woman" but leaving beard and looking like a regular man, should have access to female rape shelters or to examine women after rape? Why mental state of women there does not matter? Why sex segregation here should not matter and "gender identity is a mental state" should metter, while mental state of vulnereable women does not?

Most of us define ourselves by our gender identity.

Most of us does not define ourselves by any identity. No one I know ourside of internet, except one transwoman, have any feeling of gender identity and can't understand how you can feel yourself separated from your own body.

Trans women are women, not men who think they're women.

There nothing to prove that transwomen are adult human females.

Gender identity is a mental state.

Why mental state matters more than biological reality?

[–]pollyesther 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun - 3 years ago (0 children)

Than find a company that welcomes your transphobia.

You act like finding another job is that simple. It's not. Many of us depend on an income to survive, for food, shelter, clothing, health, etc. If you threaten to take those away simply because someone expresses a different belief about gender identity, you are essentially compelling speech for people who can't afford to lose their jobs. I should be allowed to say trans women aren't women on my Facebook page without having to worry about losing my income.

When I was at my college orientation, they told us harassment is prohibited and one of the examples of harassment they gave is not using someone's preferred pronouns. This is CUNY, my cities only public university system with 28 colleges. Eventually I had a professor who decided she was going by they/them pronouns. If I refused, I would be kicked out of college and unable to transfer credits for a year, even though the pronoun thing goes entirely against what I believe in. I could go to a private college and earn new credits, only to learn they have the same pronoun policy because the trans ideology is EVERYWHERE. We don't really have a choice. We want to have a choice. We want people to stop compelling us to play along with the gander ideology, that's all.

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