QT: A question of ideology

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

That’s ignoring the implications. If trans women are simply men they would then have no protections and no facilities they can actually use. The implications of your stance is us having no rights.

[–]SnowAssMan 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Rights". Men have got rights, gay men too. What additional "rights" do the transgendered ones require? The right to endlessly seesaw between erasing the female sex & appropriating it? Seeing trans-womxyn as men doesn't indirectly strip them of any rights, seeing them as women strips away at women's rights. Calling trans-womxyn women rids both women & trans-womxyn of definitions, making the whole thing redundant. It'd end up with us just going back to distinguishing between the sexes again anyway.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

What additional "rights" do the transgendered ones require?

Protection from discrimination in employment, housing, education, access to business and common carriers, access to essential services, and protections from discrimination in health care. In America on a national level we have exactly one of those.

Seeing trans-womxyn as men doesn't indirectly strip them of any rights

Yes. It does. Because of the way the few rights we’ve cobbled together have arisen in the courts.

seeing them as women strips away at women's rights.

No. It doesn’t. Women’s legal rights are entirely unchanged.

Calling trans-womxyn women rids both women & trans-womxyn of definitions

This is still offensive and childish. Stop trying to invent your own slur.

It'd end up with us just going back to distinguishing between the sexes again anyway.

Sex and gender are different. You want us grouped by sex which is why you would group me with men. I expressly don’t want to be grouped with men for a litany of reasons, the most important of which is that we are so different that to do so creates a myriad of legal problems and leaves us at the mercy of the unquestionable most powerful and dangerous form of humanity, and the one that does harm to us by a huge margin, men.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sex and gender are different. You want us grouped by sex which is why you would group me with men. I expressly don’t want to be grouped with men for a litany of reasons, the most important of which is that we are so different that to do so creates a myriad of legal problems and leaves us at the mercy of the unquestionable most powerful and dangerous form of humanity, and the one that does harm to us by a huge margin, men.

So why not campaign for your own spaces, provisions and protections then instead of horning in on other people's? That's what women, people with physical disabilities and the elderly had to do. How come trans people get to barge in and claim women's hard-won spaces, provisions and sports for their own?

Also, why is it okay for trans identified males to be afraid of other males and want spaces away from them, but it's bigoted and "transphobic" for female people to do the same?

In most cities, there are separate lanes in streets for buses, cars and bicycles, and the sidewalks are for pedestrians and people in prams and wheelchairs. Whenever new forms of transport and recreation come along - skateboards, roller blades, Segways, razor scooters, electric scooters, seated motorized mobility scooters for disabled people (all of which have arrived on the scene within my own lifetime) - municipalities and communities have to get together and decide where the new devices belong.

But a majority of trans people today don't want to be held to the same rules and community decision-making processes as everyone else - they want to be able to go wherever they want whenever they want simply because they demand and insist upon it. The position of many trans people is essentially that if they want to drive a bus or car on the sidewalk or in the bike lane, that's their right. Who cares how many people they mow down and how many rights belonging to others they trample and remove in the process?

Trans activists love to tell others to "stay in your lane" but they don't want to have to carve out a lane for themselves, nor stick to their own lane once it's created.